View Full Version : Is it only Libya that needs a revolution ?

08-22-2011, 04:26 PM
I was made redundant from my professional job a year ago. Even after 150 job apps, only managed to secure a temp 3-month contract. I'm very highly qualified, with 3 degrees, 2 dips and a postgrad dip. In the process of having a book published. worked continuously for past 21 years.
I went to my local town hall re: my housing and council tax benefits. Told I'm entitled to a laughable 3.10 pw housing benefit, but no council tax benefit. Informed our 'wonderful' ConDems government doesn't permit outgoings to be taken into calculations. Great !
Having applied a month ago to be put on the local authority housing register. Spoke to an African woman in Housing, who was highly officious, unpleasant and as much use as a chocolate teapot. Said I've lived in my home town, on and off, for 34 years; only to be told by this woman, who's been here for 5 mins, that that counts for nothing !
What a rotten, corrupt, dreadful country this has become, where a professional, who is highly qualified, publishing a book and a former politician, thanks to merciless, endless ConDems cutbacks,
finds himself out of work and having to live like a rat, struggling to make ends meet.
I'm no fan whatsoever of Labour, in fact I hate them, however, this wretched ConDems coalition really is the pits. The toffee-nosed, over-privileged, filthy rich likes of Cameronb, Osborne, Clegg and Cable are doing their level best to destroy as many jobs as possible, and then to deny the thousands who are made redundant, thanks to this appalling government, are denied state benefits. British society has, to its shame, reverted to the pre-war era ! These Tories are the nasty old Tories, pre-Thatcher, comprised of monied, titled, public school, Oxbridge nobs, who will do everything to destroy the poor and in the process help the rich. Where is all this supposed public money Cameron claims to be saving actually going ? Not once since the awful ConDems were elected have I heard any mention of the national debt being cut. Why are cuts not made to overseas aid, which only ever ends lining the pockets of evil third world dictators, and to the civil list; why, in 2011, are taxpayers being expected to subsidise some of the richest, pampered, over privileged rabble of inbreds in the world ?
Salt is then rubbed into the wound as the ConDems, like New Labour before them, discriminate against poor Brits like me, unemployed thanks to shocking government policy, who are denied benefits and housing, only for this to be handed freely to Poles, Nigerians, Indians etc It's a total outrage. God help the person who speaks the truth about this, the neurotic left scream "racist", rather than face up to the fact that, in the UK, the British working class are the least important people in the eyes of government and employers. Can you imagine what would happen if a white person like me told an African, in an African country, that the fact they had live in their town for 34 years was irrelevant ! You'd be annihilated ! Fact. Oh, before any leftist does falsely accuse me of racism, my wife is foreign, but, unlike most immigrants, does not abuse or slate this country.
The people of Libya badly needed a revolution, They got it and good luck to them in the post-Ghaddafi era. That said, nowhere in the western world needs a revolution more than GB. As things stand, the rich elite are getting richer at the expense of the ever repressed poor, who find themselves always subordinated to the needs of the constant flood of migrants from every corner of the world. Sadly, we are so docile, we'll keep putting up wth this crap, rather than stage our own desperately needed revolution.

08-22-2011, 07:54 PM
Bit of a rant that Mr Peril.

What I find interesting is that someone as highly qualified as yourself has found it hard to find work.
Another thing is why would you need to sign on and claim benefits? Surely you must have had some sort of redundancy package?
Unless of course you were asked to leave. That would also explain why you may have found it difficult to find work.

Your rant about the benefits system is nothing new. If you had found yourself in the same situation at any point in time you would have found it difficult. That's how it's supposed to be. The people who make a career out of the benefits system are the ones you should be venting your spleen at. They are the ones that milk the system and make it harder for those who are genuinely deserving.

Then we leap to Libya.
I think comparing this country to Libya is a little desperate. Your comment "the rich elite get richer at the expense of the poor."

From your previous text you could gather that you put yourself in the latter bracket. While I'm definitely not rich I'm far from poor. Considering I have less qualifications than yourself I can only question what field your many qualifications are in.
So instead of a revolution, which are seldom good for a country, maybe a call to weed out all those career benefit claimers would be a good start rather than a full blown revolution.

08-23-2011, 11:37 AM
On the morrow of the revolution, RedPeril will feel exactly like he did the day before.

I'm surprised you haven't taken advantage of the only benefit open to all, and it's not means-tested: local politics.

08-23-2011, 12:32 PM
Strange how it's always Sid and eatmywords who reply to my posts. Are they working in tandem ?

Yes, weed out the benefits cheats, including the foreign ones as well as the indigenous. However, that won't personally help me someone in my genuine predicament - and, thanks to the Tories, there are now many such people.

As for my own personal circumstances, it's only really those with medical, legal and financial qualifications who earn the seriously big bucks. Redundancy is now, sadly, commonplace in professions that were previously untouched by this phenomenon. It seems to me, in post-Blairite dumb-downed British society, the more academic qualifications you have, the more likely you are to have difficulty finding employment.

As for the whole wealth debate, Sid, if you compare yourself to someone living rough on the streets, then you're clearly relatively wealthy, however, try comparing yourself to the queen or Alan Sugar - you won't feel so 'rich' then ! In the Western world, the mass of people in Britain are amongst the least well off in terms of standard of living and quality of life, and this is set to worsen under Cameron !

The main reason we suffer is because of your apathetic attitude, which premits those in power, red, blue or yellow, peers, tycoons, foreign multinationals etc, to rip us off left, right and centre. Revolutions sometimes work, sometimes don't, however, at their heartis a bona fide grassroots desire to see justice for the poorest and weakest in society. Your stance means that the problems we face today as a society will be faced by all future working class generations. We need revoution from top to bottom in GB - we need a multi-party, liberal democracy, with an elected head of state, free from the shackles of Brussels, run for the people by the people - people meaning, first and foremost, the native British people. We must stop pretending we're still an imperial power, with responsibility for caring for the rest of the world at the cost of our own citizens - it's utterly ridiculous.

Moreover, revolutions are usually led by intellectuals.

Libya needed a revolution and so do we - there is nothing to choose between the despotic Gadaffi and the likes of the royals, politicians and peers; they're a detestable as each other - they steal from the people, remember the MPs' expenses scandal and murder their opponents (recall Diana and
Dr David Kelly ?).

Yes, I will 'rant' as you crudely put it if I want to, that's my right in a liberal democracy.

It sounds like you are both well-heeled and shielded from the current financial rigours, so "I'm alright, Jack" is hardly surprising, but very selfish.

Now, let's continue to see whether you defend the corrupt British establishment.

08-23-2011, 03:27 PM
So you want a revolution so you can have more money like the rich folks? Sorry to say that that would be utterly pointless, and ultimately won't solve a thing. You'd end up replacing one bunch of financial dicatators for another.

If you're going to have a revolution, have one to change the attitude of society where there is a belief that the more money and the more stuff you have, the happier you'll be. If that ever happened then the wealthy and elite would cease to have power over us. If people worked to better their lives and the lives of those around them, rather than worked towards having more money and more stuff then we'd be in a better and fairer world. It's interesting that you can call others selfish Redperil, yet you sit here and demand a bigger peice of the pie because you believe you deserve it, how is this not selfish?

We need a revolution that unshackles us from money and debt, simply demanding more because you feel you deserve it will not change a thing. It wouldn't even be a revolution, it would be a continuation of a system it is time we evolved from.

08-23-2011, 05:16 PM
Will, I agree with your latter point which concerns re-distribution of wealth. It's not acceptable in the 21c that 1 per cent of the populace own 50 per cent of the land, for example. We need as far as it is achieveable a society based on meritocracy and not the archaic fallicy of birth-right and privilege. We need to ditch the monarchy, peerages and the like, which is the lynchpyn of the problems in our society. It belongs in the past, not the present.
I'm also exasperated with the Thatcherite notion that everything has to be run for a profit. Private businesses yes, but not for goodness sake the NHS, schools etc All this means is redundancies, overpaid managers and fat cats, patients dying because they can't get operations etc This legacy of Thatcher is doing much damage today.
As for myself, well I only want what I'm worth, enough but not obscene, decadent wealth which is not good for anyone. There is no need to have a head of state or any business person worth billions, while parents can't afford to properly house and feed their families, it's immoral and wicked.
I'd also like a society which stops discriminating against people for being white and English, heterosexual, Christian etc This doesn't mean violence etc towards others, it just means that, like any other country, the English come first in their own land, what's wrong with that ? I'd also like to see the return of law and order, especially amongst the riotous young.
Democracy and capitalism, like communism, fascism and every other system before them have failed, however, I am convinced that whilst we will never achieve utopia, things could be drastically improved here in GB. We keep trying to put new wine into old wineskins and it just doesn't work.

08-23-2011, 05:31 PM
Ok, we have the revolution and we set RedPeril at the head, and all our problems are over... well, all RedPeril's problems are over, to be precise.

A revolution is not about moving towards something, it is a moving away. A moving away from our inherent flaws and wickedness. You may think that our benefit system is something out of the Middle Ages, but that's because, in terms of history, it is in the Middle Ages. Perhaps in another one-hundred years it will arrive at the Reformation, or, perhaps, go back to the Dark Ages. Who knows? You clearly want it to progress into the Reformation, so what do you do? What's you prime motive to move from persecution to salvation? Well, you seem to indicate immigrants are the prime reason why you aren't getting everything you want from the system, so once you are head of the People's Council you will kick all the immigrants out. Job done. The Benefits System is as good as it was back in the 1930s. But hold on, we've gone backwards just there. How did that happen? RedPeril has championed this revolution, to improve society, and he's sent us back 80 years, back into the Dark Ages; no pun intended. Okay, so there must be some other fundamental problem with the Benefits System. It must be money. Well, now we've kick all the blacks out there's going to be a lot more money in the system to give out to all us whites. Only, we've kicked out all the immigrant business owners, and the low-paid employees, have all disappeared to that magical isle of Pogromia. You fail to realise many immigrants invest in this country, and at present a free-ride to a visa costs 200,000 or employ 2 nationals for a minimum term. Marks & Spencers were Jews, and so is Alan Sugar. Nearly all high-street fast-food shops are owned by immigrants. Kick them out and the decline of the high-street will happen overnight. By making the poor rich and the rich poor really doesn't affect your priniple aim. What happens to the oil we take from these countries? What about all the money being invested by our rich Arab cousins? I suppose you're happy to keep that?

Considering the real rate of fertility for the white race is not actually increasing, and is in fact decreasing, then a natural and pronounced retardation of the economy is a natural consequence of a declining population; people will have to enter the workplace earlier and leave later. Yet again, we've took a giant leap into the Dark Ages. Another natural consequence is the collapse of the monetary system. Money will become hard to find because there is far less production of the necessary services we have all come to expect and enjoy. A lot less money into the tax system, and the net result of that, a collapse of the beneft system, and then we have, perhaps 1/4 of, what's left, the national population living on or well below the poverty line; which will have to be redefined to take into account of all the social, fiscal, and political changes come about due to the glorious revolution.

If you could at first grasp the concept of revolution, you may then be in a position to comment on what you want a revolution in. And then you may be in a position to do something about it.

08-23-2011, 07:15 PM
So we do,nt need a revolution, certainly not ,as invisaged by Redperil. But there is an awful lot wrong in the balance of our society, it clearly fails in a number of areas . The rich are getting richer and the poor are still struggleing to make ends meet. The law will come down heavier on a single mother ,for over claiming benefits, yet ignore MPs supposedly making mistaken claims amounting to thousands of pounds. Men and women lose their jobs, whilst our government award contracts to foreign manufacturers, for the sake a small percentage saving, when it would clearly be an investment in this country, as against an investment in Germany, lets say. Reds, problem, and I suggest our problem is who is going to change any of this? Certainly not our existing political parties. So if not revolution. Who, will change how we do things in the future and how?

08-23-2011, 08:42 PM
Mine isn't a mindless tirade against blacks, Jews etc. My wife is black and some of my ancestors were Jews. I would want GB out of Europe, so that white east Europeans are no longer able to swamp England, take our jobs, decrease wages, spread TB etc. I also believe North Americans, Australians etc should return home. It's not a colour or race issue - it's about preserving our scarce public resources, preserving our culture and putting people whose ancestors fought 2 world wars, lived through the depression, and built this country up post-1945 come first. How can it be right that British pensionsers freeze to death each winter through poverty, yet the welfare system keeps fit, healthy young men from places like Albania etc Immigrants are not the sole cause, but they are the biggest cause of our problems today. You have nations within a nation - very precarious. I certainly believe that those immigrants with business assets should have the full market value for these. GB should be a sanctuary for the genuinely persecuted around the world, however, all too often these are excluded by the home office and the dregs allowed entry. Illegals should be kicked out. Settled migrants should be given very generous payments to reutrn home. With less people to have to keep the need for taxation becomes increasing less. Speaking of which, taxation in this country needs a major revamp, as proportionally the poor pay far more than the well off. The lack of integration of many immigrant communities also contributes to the instability of British society.

Thanks to the ConDems we are in the 1930s, with a witting attack on the poor and the protection of the interests of the rich. It's not about role reversal for the rich and poor, it's about re-distribution and fairness. Why do we have to have a billionaire queen when people are living and dying on the capital's streets ? Explain that one.

If we complain in one breath, then justify establishment corruption in the next, how on earth will things ever improve ? We need a branch and root revolution, ideally bloodless of course.

I suppose, in a sense, and don't misinterpret this as far right extremism, which is most certainly is not, we need a form of socialism anchored to nationalistic care for our own, rather than, as GB does, worrying about the rest of the world, whilst ignoring our own folks. We have to accept that the days of empire are well and truly past.

As for oil and the Arabs, we need to develop synthetic oil, which has been done before and find alternative fuel sources independent of oil and the Arabs.

We also need the return of law and order and capital punishment, both of which are supported to the majority of people.

Mr Muckspreader
08-23-2011, 10:59 PM
I haven't been logged in for a while (Been gathering the hay), but boy this has been entertaining.

You're after 'redistribution of wealth', yup I'd sign up for that one. I'm a tenant on an estate owned by a member of the establishment and it really does stick in the craw when I pay rent to someone who has not had to struggle like my fellow tenants and I do every day to make a living.
And you want to send all the immegrants home as a solution to our problems. Hmmmm, the illegals I would agree with, but people who have legitimately made their home here would be where I would depart from your policy. As has been pointed out further up in the forum, many of the immegrants to this country really do contribute. For instance the vegetables would rot in the fields if weren't for the immegrants who come and pick'em so that we, (Yup the Brits), can wander down our supermarket isles and buy them. It really would be too much for some Brits to do this work as they would consider that it was 'beneath them' even though they muddle through on benefits. I really do think that us Brits are far too 'up ourselves' in that respect and an outlook re-adjustment might be just what is in order to get this country going again.

I'm sorry for your predicament in one sense in that your obviously a very well qualified person, and being out of work now is definitely the worst time in a long time. However I am glad to see anyone converting to an agenda that has redistribution of wealth in there. Hope you get some work, but remember "we're all in this together" :crying:

If ever there was phrase that will come to haunt a millionaire politician that is it!

Msr du Merde

08-23-2011, 11:33 PM
I'd also like a society which stops discriminating against people for being white and English, heterosexual, Christian etc This doesn't mean violence etc towards others, it just means that, like any other country, the English come first in their own land, what's wrong with that ? I'd also like to see the return of law and order, especially amongst the riotous young.

This just about sums you up Mr Peril.

Did you not see that the vast majority of rioters were white?

Your blinkered view doesn't surprise me in the least.

08-24-2011, 02:36 PM
This just about sums you up Mr Peril.

Did you not see that the vast majority of rioters were white?

Your blinkered view doesn't surprise me in the least.
Having any sort of racism in this debate is wrong. But your question ,come answer, is equally wrong Sid, because its hopelessly inaccurate. By the way if you substitute white with black in your post, how would that read to you? Or more to the point what is the difference between the use of one shade or the other?

08-25-2011, 02:26 PM
Nice to find someone who agrees with re-distribution of wealth.

I still don't agree with the red-herring argument though that immigrants do all the base jobs etc. We won a world war with only 30 million people. We created an empire with even less. We do not need immigrants to function as a nation. The open doors policy of immigration has flooded us with countless millions who, in thr main, are a financial burden, take jobs, spread diseases, influence our politics, add to racism, take housing, cripple the NHS and education system, attack and undermine British culture and breach the law with impunity, carry out terrorism etc etc Mass immigration has gone too far and needs to stop.

I wonder, do you live on a royal estate ?

Mr Muckspreader
08-25-2011, 09:18 PM
Take out all the immegrants tomorrow. Watch the produce in the fields rot and the supermarkets suck in foreign vegetable imports to fill the vacant shelves. Honestly it would happen.

I do not live on a Royal Estate, but the owners are definitely members of 'The Establishment'.

Whether you like it or not Mr Red, we are where we are so we need to come up with ideas to move forward positively. Simply rounding up the immegrants and shipping 'em out was exactly what Mr Hitler tried to do so I think we need to be a little more creative.

Sadly we have professional politicians who have mostly come from the upper and upper middle classes themselves. We need to get some real creative thinkers from all classes to be the people that are put up for the rest of us to vote for. Redistribution of wealth I can go for, but the 'final solution' aspect of your ideas I cannot.



08-26-2011, 01:07 AM
Nice to find someone who agrees with re-distribution of wealth.

I still don't agree with the red-herring argument though that immigrants do all the base jobs etc. We won a world war with only 30 million people. We created an empire with even less. We do not need immigrants to function as a nation. The open doors policy of immigration has flooded us with countless millions who, in thr main, are a financial burden, take jobs, spread diseases, influence our politics, add to racism, take housing, cripple the NHS and education system, attack and undermine British culture and breach the law with impunity, carry out terrorism etc etc Mass immigration has gone too far and needs to stop.

I wonder, do you live on a royal estate ?

I've had this debate in a previous life I'm sure but here goes.

Forget your heart and your so-called diluted Englishness and the fact is that we do need a certain amount of surplus workforce. This is to keep wages down.
It may not seem ideal for the individual but it is necessary and is why we've actively encouraged immigration in the past.
Zero unemployment, which can be inferred would be the desired outcome of ridding the country of immigrants, isn't really the best option for the country either.
It's far too complicated but th basis is that if there is a shortage in workforce then the cost of employing people goes up.

One of the most ludicrous comments I've ever read is that we won the war with only 30 million people.
Have you seen a road atlas from 1940?
It's a completely different world and one so distant from the one we live in that a comparison is pointless to say the least.

This country is a country founded on immigration and I'm very dubious as to how "pure" English Red is.

08-26-2011, 05:32 PM
Guys, you're all missing the point. This isn't about the absurd notion of 'racial purity', which is a fallicy. It's about having a manageable level of immigration, rather than the ongoing swamping of our country with people, of all colours, from around the world. Today I've noticed lots of east Europeans swanning around, in employment, which means one less job for a Brit etc British people can and do do what are considered menial jobs. Mass immigration is a problem. But please don't tar me as a lunatic, racist extremist, as I detest Nazism and any form of extremism, left, right or religious as much as the next person. Incidentally, I heard today that under Cameron immigrations risen 20 % in the past year - there's no difference between Tory and Labour !

Yes, we've always had some leve of immigration, however, it was tiny compared to now and these migrants of the past integrated, abided by the law, contributed to society, respected GB etc As for my own ancestors, I can tell you that they were treated like sh*t, and not treated like royalty as immigrants are today.

What's so wrong with Brits coming first in their own country for God's sake ? It happens in every other country, why not here ?

As for WW2, it has a direct relevance to 2011. We don't need a single immigrant - they need us ? If they all went tomorrow, the country would continue to function and do so more effectively. Most of our society's problems would vanish overnight.

As for the rioters, lootists, arsonists, I say shoot them in the act, whether black, white etc

Please, no more comparisons to that evil despot Hitler and Nazism and flippant use of 'Final Solution' - it's offensive and irrelevant.