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Will
11-02-2006, 06:26 PM
As most of you already know, I'm venomously against the BNP and their underhanded tactics to exploit problem areas. The BNP are not part of the solution they are very much part of the problem.

Let us never forget their true goal, which is to remove all non-white people from the UK. They also want to set the clock back in the UK, under the mis-guided idea that "it worked in the past, so it can work now", failing to recognise that we live in a different world and that setting the clock back in most cases, isn't an option. They also want to sever ties with other countries, and make the UK as isolated as possible.

The BNP are Nazis, not only do I object to them morally, I object to them because they would be the ruin of this country.

Bruv
11-02-2006, 06:57 PM
The main and frightening problem with such right wing groups is that they are talking about the main concerns of everybody in the country.

I think most people would agree that there is a concern about newcomers......not necassarily black newcomers.
To express a fear of something that we feel powerless to affect, by the ballot box or by protest.....is seen to be racist, right wing or to be living in the past.

There must be a way of non racists to make their fears known without being branded as racists.
I have used the example of throwing a party in your own home, and then being deluged by gatecrashers.You wanted a nice do, but by wieght of numbers you must turn some away at the door....or the party will be a flop for everybody.
That illustration expanded to cover the whole country shows how I believe things are right now.

The question is....How do you stop the gatecrashers ?

Will
11-02-2006, 07:15 PM
I agree, genuine concerns like immigration have been hijacked by the far-right. This makes it difficult for people who have geuine concerns which are non-racially motivated, to be heard.

Bruv
11-02-2006, 07:59 PM
So it needs a mainstream party tp speak out without the bile from the far right oozing through.

Unfortunately the PC brigade forbid any such open fears being talked about....or worse....the fear of the PC brigade

Will
11-02-2006, 08:35 PM
Very true, that's why I have to take my hat off to Jack Straw for voicing his thoughts on the veil issue. He must have known full well that Islamic Extremists would try to exploit his comments, but he did it anyway. I'd like to think that this will open the door to more MPs voicing the concerns of the people they represent.

terry witless
11-02-2006, 09:25 PM
the bnp will never make a goverment, but the postive thing they have done is reel in the mainstream partys on immigration, which is largely in step with public opinon

Bruv
11-02-2006, 10:28 PM
The negative that they have done is to make their views almost acceptable..
Its the extremists that end up setting the pace...and everybody moves slowly in their direction.

bugsy
11-03-2006, 07:35 AM
the bnp may have some radical elements in their midst, but I believe many have deep concerns on the way our country is is being run and where its heading. whether this is being racist or not, does not mask the real truth...many of us know. people should be free to choose their political statements,thoughts. Although I might not agree with everything the bnp say, I support them on many issues.

Will
11-03-2006, 11:24 AM
I don't doubt that there are BNP members who have genuine concerns about the country, but I'd find it worrying if I thought they didn't realise that the BNP's true colours were a wholly racist and anti-semitic party. They probably have one or two policies I'd agree with, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

But the problem is, they are and will always remain a racist party. I despise the fact that they have tried to bury this fact as a ploy to win voters, and people are buying it! Nick Griffen has been their most successful leader, because he created this policy of hiding the truth.

StreetPee
11-03-2006, 12:20 PM
the bnp may have some radical elements in their midst, but I believe many have deep concerns on the way our country is is being run and where its heading. whether this is being racist or not, does not mask the real truth...many of us know. people should be free to choose their political statements,thoughts. Although I might not agree with everything the bnp say, I support them on many issues.


I have to say, that is just about where I stand. I believe they are a necessary evil.

bugsy
11-03-2006, 12:49 PM
Dont all political parties have a hidden agenda somwhere.....The sad fact though is that it appear that only the bnp have the ordacity to stand up and say enough is enough, albeit with racism traits thrown in.Maybe its what this country needs to get a shakeup and for them to realize that the people have the power if we only stood together.

StreetPee
11-03-2006, 12:58 PM
I think we will see it next time. The BNP will definately gain seats, I am very much hoping they do, for exactly the reasons Bugsy gives (again)!

Will
11-03-2006, 01:38 PM
This country does need a shake up, but the BNP are most definitely not the one to do it. I disagree that other parties have hidden agendas in the same way the BNP do. They are hiding their agenda as a way of manipulating voters into thinking they are something they are not.

The bottom line is the BNP hate people who have a different skin colour to their own, and want them removed form the UK. I don't see how you can in any way justify this, let alone use it as a founding policy. This is why the BNP are so reluctant to appear on the news, because they know their window dressing will quickly be seen through under the scrutiny of journalists. They will be forced to admit they are racist, and Nick Griffen knows this would be a blow to the party.

ahwell
11-03-2006, 02:28 PM
I think the likes of Jack Straw and the likes are right. The problem is that all three mainstream political parties have hidden behind mothers skirt for many years and governments in general have been to wary to combat a problem that they themselves have created. They have magnified the problem by setting up quangos to look into racism and sexism etc and swallowed their results hook line and sinker.All public sector workers have to attend diversity courses at a cost of millions. Ive had to attend several and they have all been crap Why? Because if you are a racist your going to switch off and go to sleep for three or four hours and if your not you wonder why are these people telling me this for! The trouble is now the horse has already bolted and Mr Straw is unlikely to be fast enough to catch it. It must also be said racism is not only on a one way street and many racists are of different ethnic origins to white anglo saxons. Again the powers that be seem to be very slow and unwilling to pick up on this. Unless they get their act together pretty smartish im afraid the bnp will only grow stronger as people will have no faith in any government that wont address this issue head on. Ps i know i have said this before but i was banned from a semi union site for raising the rivers of blood speech once just for asking the question could Enoch have been right ? Thats what eveybody is up against.

Will
11-03-2006, 02:34 PM
I think Enoch got proved well and truly wrong, but let's not get distracted on that tangent. I think you've hit the nail on the head about the main party's reluctance to tackle the problems head on. Treating the subject with kid gloves just isn't going to work, it only leads to the type of pointless tot that you mentioned (Diversity courses). I'm not claiming to know the solution, but this definitely isn't the answer!

ahwell
11-03-2006, 02:56 PM
[QUOTE=Will;16119]I think Enoch got proved well and truly wrong, but let's not get distracted on that tangent.

Will i beleve he was wrong too . My only only reason for mentioning it is that i wasnt allowed to start a debate by asking that question and got banned for daring to. Now this isnt just down to government its seeped in to union culture too. My own union has a black and ethnic minority section and so does the police force . Why ? A union should be a union so my point is the pc brigade have got right down to the core of society and will truly ruin everything if its not stopped.

bugsy
11-03-2006, 04:44 PM
one has to ask why do they hate people who are not white......what is the root cause? we all know the reason.Now some might just have a dislike for various non political reasons...but they are entitled to their dislikes.....one cannot force people into going along with the flow....our country is a breeding ground for this because the majority whites are being systematically pulled down from their castles....

Can you blame them?

terry witless
11-03-2006, 04:54 PM
racial hatred is not merely confirned to whites hating non whites.....

Will
11-03-2006, 05:17 PM
That's the thing bugsy, I really don't know why these people hate other people just because of the colour of their skin. Enlighten me.

Bruv
11-03-2006, 11:24 PM
Can I say catagorically that there is a difference between the black and white races.

The black's skin contains more melanin.




Seems very simple to say THAT is the only difference....and of course its not.....the same as there are differences within European cultures/characters/attitudes there is the same with black new comers.


The big question though is why second third and fourth generation black immigrant descendants are still outside the mainstream of our culture.....and why second generation whites are absorbed without trace ?



Let the discussion start from there.....

skinny
11-05-2006, 09:18 AM
maybe some don't want to be absorbed Bruv.....

Bruv
11-05-2006, 04:59 PM
maybe some don't want to be absorbed Bruv.....

Some dont for sure.......but strangely the Jews are the same and yet they are very much part of our society while not being absorbed....entirely.

My leading question is double edged....They are not absorbed because they are obviously different....we tend to treat them differently.

See if this link works ............http://www.talk-uk.com/showthread.php?t=8164&page=2


Its to the other thread where I said how we all keep blacks apart form us....and they keep apart from us ........at least that is what I was trying to say.

StreetPee
11-05-2006, 05:09 PM
In London, the blacks, ie. West Indians, are very much intergrated.

Bruv
11-05-2006, 05:31 PM
You have never been to Peckham.....
Or visited a Black specific web site........

ahwell
11-05-2006, 06:11 PM
I lived in Hackney for over a year . For once i will agree with Bruv. Sorry Bruv i wont make a habit of it.

StreetPee
11-05-2006, 07:37 PM
Well, only going by what I know. I know Peckham and Hackney. Mind you, not lived there for a while.

Update:

Been thinking about this, maybe I had a different view, as I was 'well in' with local West Indians. So it's probably not what you know, but who.

Will
11-06-2006, 12:31 PM
There are plenty of examples of places where immigrant populations have been segregated from the rest of the UK society, my example would be Spark Hill in Birmingham. Racists often use this as their strongest argument that "the great experiment" as they oddly call it, has failed.

It doesn't matter that the vast majority of them do integrate with UK society. Just because they have been shoved into the same areas by the government, it doesn't mean multiculturalism has failed. It's always interesting that cultures that have established themselves in this country for a lot longer, don't get looked at in the same way. Most big cities have a Chinatown somewhere, as does Birmingham, and it is as popular with all other races of people, as it is with Chinese.

I think the difference is that people have had time to get used to the Chinese areas, you certainly never see racists using it in their example, because they know it proves them wrong. While they are quite clearly living in a segregated fashion, they are also integrated and excepted.

I think the reason that other communities haven't been accepted in the same way, is that the media is only interested in showing the negatives. People need to be more accepting of other cultures. There are of course a few examples of people who come to this country, with no intention of integrating either. These are the people the media like to focus on, they never show the people who want to be as much a part of this country as possible.

To sum up:
- Yes cultures do segregate themselves do some degree.
- Does this mean multiculturalism has failed? No.

StreetPee
11-06-2006, 06:15 PM
But the Chinese have got it right, it's the ones that won't, not can't integrate that hit the headlines. Other communities want to change Britain, bend us more towards their way, the Chinese never have wanted this and so they are accepted.

Bruv
11-06-2006, 06:33 PM
Apart from the government loading areas with certain groups (Tower Hamlets for Asians ) people of the same ethnicity like to group together rnaturally.This in itself is not bad, it is when these areas become inward looking ,isolating themselves, with schools and shops and become little ghettos by default.

It is when the horizon of the children is limited to the boundaries of their area, with no real interaction with the british or its way of life that multiculturalism fails.