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Thread: Who's against ID Cards?

  1. #1
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    Default Who's against ID Cards?

    I just noticed that Talk UK is linked to the No2ID campaign - but does everyone here regard ID cards as a bad thing?

    Admittedly they're unlikely to to be the cure-all against illegal immigration, crime and swine flu that Nulabour Stasi spin suggests.

    But they can be carried in a wallet and get rid of the need to present gas bills and bank accounts to prove you exist - and also be useful for travelling in Europe. I think I'm for them if the authorities can come up with a less costly version, as it currently looks like doubling up passport costs.

  2. #2
    Zoo Animal
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    I carry both dna & finger prints with me at all times..........

    I don't really think I need a plastic card!

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    Quote Originally Posted by oswald View Post
    I carry both dna & finger prints with me at all times..........

    I don't really think I need a plastic card!
    Ahhh - those will probably prove you're human, but in today's troubled times can they quickly prove who you are?

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    I don't have strong feelings against the idea of identity cards in principle.

    However, the current proposals look hugely expensive and would be ineffective in dealing with the problems they're supposed to prevent.

    For instance, Al Qaeda 'sleepers' tend to use their real identities and lead a double life, concealing their evil intentions until they commit their planned atrocities.

    I can also imagine the biometric cards throwing up lots of 'false positives', with innocent little old ladies being detained as suspected terrorists!

    So, on balance, the proposed biometric ID card system should be scrapped now.

    If the Conservatives stick to the idea of dropping ID cards if they win the next election, it will attract votes and if they keep saying that now, companies won't be very interested in working on ID cards with the current sunset administration.
    Last edited by Dermot Walrusson; 10-30-2009 at 02:40 PM.

  5. #5
    The Friendly Ghost! Casper's Avatar
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    I am wholeheartedly against ID cards and actively campaign against them.

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    I have absolutely nothing against ID cards and think this whole thing about civil liberties is a nonsense. Austria, Italy, Luxembourg, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Poland, Netherlands, Hungary, Germany, France, Greece, Denmark, Romania, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland are but a few of the EU countries who have National Identity Cards not forgetting of course USA and Canada. I could not give a monkeys what information is held on the cards particularly health information as it could just save my life someday and they make things easier to travel between countries and for formal identification for banks, rent etc etc. If Tesco can predict my spending and what goods I purchase and my bank not only knows what I spend but who I pay money to on a regular basis and even where in the country I am when I draw money from an ATM I am not worried about an ID card.
    I do not care how many cameras there are looking at me if they also see crimes and those who comit them. They are not really bothered about watching me picking my nose.

  7. #7
    Administrator Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetie pie View Post
    I have absolutely nothing against ID cards and think this whole thing about civil liberties is a nonsense. Austria, Italy, Luxembourg, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Poland, Netherlands, Hungary, Germany, France, Greece, Denmark, Romania, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland are but a few of the EU countries who have National Identity Cards not forgetting of course USA and Canada.
    It isn't nonsense. ID cards would only ever be effective against fraud and illegal immigration if they were made compulsory to carry around. This is exactly what has started happening in Arizona in America. The police have been given the power to stop and search anyone who "looks like an illegal immigrant", and if they don't have their "papers" on them at all times, they risk being deported. Ask an hispanic looking person who is a legal American citizen living in Arizona; every time he gets asked for his papers; if he thinks his civil liberties have been infringed?

    Then tell him he's talking nonsense.

    I could not give a monkeys what information is held on the cards particularly health information as it could just save my life someday
    Why do you need to pay 30 to do this? I could write the same information of a piece of paper and stick it in my wallet if I was that worried about it.

    and they make things easier to travel between countries and for formal identification for banks, rent etc etc.
    I can already do these things with my passport.

    If Tesco can predict my spending and what goods I purchase and my bank not only knows what I spend but who I pay money to on a regular basis and even where in the country I am when I draw money from an ATM I am not worried about an ID card.
    I do not care how many cameras there are looking at me if they also see crimes and those who comit them. They are not really bothered about watching me picking my nose.
    The trouble is that the line needs to be drawn somewhere. Having a national curfew for non-emergency personal would cut crime drastically, and it wouldn't harm anyone. That's exactly the same argument as for ID cards. The trouble is that things like ID cards and DNA databases all work on the assumption that everyone is guilty until proven innocent, that's not how our law system works.

    The point is ID cards might prove useful for a while, but what happens when fake ID cards can be produced? OK so we have a compulsory DNA databse as well, but what happens when fake DNA evidence can be produced? Maybe we start enforcing travel restrictions? What happens when that's not enough? Perhaps we can reward people to spy on their neighbours? WHat happens when that's not enough? As Benjamin Franklin said, "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Last edited by Will; 05-27-2010 at 12:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetie pie View Post
    I have absolutely nothing against ID cards and think this whole thing about civil liberties is a nonsense. Austria, Italy, Luxembourg, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Poland, Netherlands, Hungary, Germany, France, Greece, Denmark, Romania, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland are but a few of the EU countries who have National Identity Cards not forgetting of course USA and Canada. I could not give a monkeys what information is held on the cards particularly health information as it could just save my life someday and they make things easier to travel between countries and for formal identification for banks, rent etc etc. If Tesco can predict my spending and what goods I purchase and my bank not only knows what I spend but who I pay money to on a regular basis and even where in the country I am when I draw money from an ATM I am not worried about an ID card.
    I do not care how many cameras there are looking at me if they also see crimes and those who comit them. They are not really bothered about watching me picking my nose.
    Bear in mind that those who hold these records are constantly getting more 'efficient' by employing cheaper and cheaper help who cannot handle the work and are likely to confuse you with any terrorist, child abuser or illegal immigrant of the same or vaguely similar name/appearance/gender or haircut, and that you will very easily get yourself put on a blacklist and not be able to get off it. The fewer powers we give to these shambling incompetents the better.

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