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Thread: Should prisoners have the vote?

  1. #11
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    Can,t agree Casper, When you break the law, you disenfranchise, yourself, Its your choice to oppose the rules of society. It may be simply punitive, that certain rights are lost in the process. If it was just a simple case of educating prisoners back to the straight and narrow, then we would all be breaking the law, because it would then be far easier than earning an honest living. If they needed an MP, I understand there,s four or five in at the moment, could prove handy.

  2. #12
    The Friendly Ghost! Casper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mack View Post
    When you break the law, you disenfranchise yourself
    That assertion is merely an oft-repeated statement not back up by any formalised rationality. The question is: why should a law breaker be disenfranchised?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mack View Post
    Its your choice to oppose the rules of society.
    But it's not solely your choice to establish those rules in society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mack View Post
    It may be simply punitive, that certain rights are lost in the process. If it was just a simple case of educating prisoners back to the straight and narrow, then we would all be breaking the law, because it would be far easier than earning an honest living.
    Allowing prisoners the right to vote would hardly encourage people to commit crime. It's not like I'm arguing that prisoners ought to live a luxurious life. For the record, I actually believe in restricting certain privileges for prisoners such as gym equipment. If I as a law abiding working citizen cannot afford to go to the gym, then prisoners most definitely should not be afforded such luxuries at the tax payers' expense.

  3. #13

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    Because Casper, if a law breaker does not disenfranchise themeselves by breaking the law- then there is no point having any laws.

    Prison is a a punishment as well as protecting the innocent. rehabilitation is a nice to have - but like I said earlier lose a job and no one pays for you to retrain -yet you want law breakers to be retrained at no cost to them by the tax payer.

    The views you express are exactly what is wrong with this country. similarly your views on bin laden are exactly what's wrong with this country and why the way its going it will never recover.

    Yes your views are your entitlement, but I am entitled to say that your views on these two issues have made me feel physically sick.

  4. #14
    The Friendly Ghost! Casper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishouldberunningthecountr View Post
    Because Casper, if a law breaker does not disenfranchise themeselves by breaking the law- then there is no point having any laws.
    Don't be so sensationalist. The point of having laws, particularly criminal laws, is to give the state authority to bring criminals to justice and put them into prison, if necessary, for public protection, and hopefully for rehabilitation. Disenfranchisement is just a random punitive measure which plays no particular mechanism in the criminal justice process other than to satisfy the thirst for retribution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishouldberunningthecountr View Post
    Prison is a a punishment as well as protecting the innocent. rehabilitation is a nice to have - but like I said earlier lose a job and no one pays for you to retrain -yet you want law breakers to be retrained at no cost to them by the tax payer.
    Please show me where I have said that I want to spend lots of taxpayers' money to train criminals with job skills. All I have said was that enfranchisement might assist with rehabilitation. Rehabilitation is not just about providing training and education to criminals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishouldberunningthecountr View Post
    The views you express are exactly what is wrong with this country. similarly your views on bin laden are exactly what's wrong with this country and why the way its going it will never recover.

    Yes your views are your entitlement, but I am entitled to say that your views on these two issues have made me feel physically sick.
    No, if there is anything wrong with this country, it's the unthinking sensationalist masses.
    Last edited by Casper; 06-10-2012 at 11:05 PM.

  5. #15

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    Like I say you are full of pc shit and make me feel sick.

  6. #16
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    Casper, when you ask,. Why should a law breaker be disenfranchised, it merely shows you do not know the difference in law, between right and wrong,. If you are acting outside of the law, you are acting outside of society, you are already in effect disinfranchised, which is your own choice. On the issue of choice. So you do,nt agree with the rules, hard shit its a democracy. Your right, allowing the right to vote, on its own would not promote crime, but it would be another step towards ,the utopian ideal of every prisoner, which is to do their time in a holiday camp.

  7. #17
    The Friendly Ghost! Casper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mack View Post
    Casper, when you ask,. Why should a law breaker be disenfranchised, it merely shows you do not know the difference in law, between right and wrong,. If you are acting outside of the law, you are acting outside of society, you are already in effect disinfranchised, which is your own choice. On the issue of choice. So you do,nt agree with the rules, hard shit its a democracy. Your right, allowing the right to vote, on its own would not promote crime, but it would be another step towards ,the utopian ideal of every prisoner, which is to do their time in a holiday camp.
    What do you think about my suggestion that we should remove some of their excessive privileges such as gym equipment? Our political rights should be strong by giving criminals the right to vote, but we can save the tax payers some money by removing all expensive gym facilities for prisoners. I don't see how this is a step closer towards making prisons a holiday camp.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Stephen H's Avatar
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    So assuming that we did give them the vote, in which constituency would they be entitled to vote?

    Aftre all, the place where they are serving their time could be hundreds of miles away from their homes.

    If someone is doing life in prison, then should he get a postal vote for his home town (where he will probably never ever live again) or should he get a vote in the constituency of the prison?

    If there were 6000 inmates of that prison and some local MP or other walked in and said "If you vote for me I will fight to get your sentences reduced", would that be a fair local election and would it be trully representative of the tax payers in the area? Or could the prison vote swing the result one way or the other?

    Could the prison vote in a city, for instance Manchester, swing the vote in favour of a right wing party such as the BNP?, would you, as a liberalist, be happy having the BNP ?

    You see, it is the same argument as multiculturalism, it is easy to talk about and looks great on paper, but in reality, it would probably never work.

  9. #19
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    Casper, you put me in a hard place on this, I think they do,nt need the vote , they do need to be kept fit, you know the old saying ."A healthy body, A healthy mind". Maybe I,m old fashioned but I believe that to be true. In general though its a matter of keeping the regime harsh enough to make those in there realise, that it is not the place they would like to be. If that is not the case, then the prison system is not doing what it was designed to do.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen H View Post
    So assuming that we did give them the vote, in which constituency would they be entitled to vote?

    Aftre all, the place where they are serving their time could be hundreds of miles away from their homes....
    Any Tory rotten borough will do I imagine. But service-people can vote while abroad, and it is counted in their domiciled constituency.

    And Mack, please tell me what prisons were designed to do, because I am truly at a loss to consider anything but the saying, out of sight out of mind.

    But if we are going to take away all their toys to create a kennel of indolent and physically debilitated convicts, then I don't see why we just don't kill them? We have plenty of those people already on the dole and in universities. Although I imagine the New Order will also be setting them to work 12ish hours a day to compensate the taxpayer, carefully avoiding complex issues such as pay, labour infringements and human exploitation, and if they don't want to work then cut their bloody heads off.

    Will being unable to watch X-Factor or play X-Box at the weekend really make a difference in the psychology of the criminal? I really don't know, as I don't have tv. Although I do find it remarkable we can't think of anything but material punishments that only punish the body instead of reforming the mind. I believe the convict already had a vote before he entered prison, so I really can't see any advantage for giving prisoners the vote, other than to allow them broadened bargaining power to improve their isolation every five years. Now, the Nazis had a jolly fine idea for vagrants, idealists and convicts. They would fly some up 30,000 feet then throw them out of the plane, to scientifically examine the causes and effects of hypothermia in the Air Force. The Navy would pressure test U-Boats with prisoners inside. And the army, well, that was truly the success story of criminal reform, as about 1/3 of the Wehrmacht were composed of the worst offenders in the country.
    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

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