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Thread: Religion: a right or a privilege

  1. #41
    Administrator Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mack View Post
    For one there is no way to measure the integrity of someone pertaining to be an atheist.
    What? Are you saying that some atheists can't be trusted in claiming they don't believe in god, and might actually be closet god botherers?

    Two there have always been people who have tried to conquer their fears, and in some that takes the form of refusing to take the crutch that a belief offers.
    Since when has atheism been about conquering your fear of death? I'm sorry, but what you're saying just doesn't make any sense.

    You may be right to make a connection between survival technics and religious beliefs, but you don,t go far enough, because superstition and religious belief,(which may well be the same thing,) offer some way of controling the unknown. The fact is it is nothing more than a gamble for both the believer and the atheist, and it will remain so until the day we confront God, or not as the case may be, we are still light years away from knowing what is the true extent of our journey.
    So until we get closer to the day that all questions are answered, men are going to accept being deceived by false doctrines, and their own fears and superstitions, and atheists will remain nothing other than those who think they already know the answer. Which only makes them on a par with most religions.
    That's simply not true though, as I said before, if it were true there would be no atheists. We don't need to know everything to know that the gods of all these religions don't exist. Again, atheism is growing across the world, some experts even speculate that atheism could be the dominant perspective on religion in as little as 50 years time. You are right that superstition and religion are the same thing, your claim that people will always believe in the supernatural because of fear of death holds no water though.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    What? Are you saying that some atheists can't be trusted in claiming they don't believe in god, and might actually be closet god botherers?



    Since when has atheism been about conquering your fear of death? I'm sorry, but what you're saying just doesn't make any sense.



    That's simply not true though, as I said before, if it were true there would be no atheists. We don't need to know everything to know that the gods of all these religions don't exist. Again, atheism is growing across the world, some experts even speculate that atheism could be the dominant perspective on religion in as little as 50 years time. You are right that superstition and religion are the same thing, your claim that people will always believe in the supernatural because of fear of death holds no water though.
    The answer to your question is , Yes. I was referring to fear in general. I think history fails to support your theory on human reaction to fear of the unknown.
    Last edited by Mack; 08-31-2013 at 11:26 AM.

  3. #43

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    I would love to argue the point for atheism and the common misconceptions held by theists about what atheism means etc but that was off topic.

    Religion being a right or a privilege is a different matter and I happen to think the answer is dependent on context.

    Religious belief is of course a right. It is everybody's right to believe whatever they like. Whether that is utter nonsense or not is irrelevant.
    However, the OP referred to religious freedom being hard-won and fought for. This makes me think they are referring not to the religious freedom of 'belief' in something and ability to worship but instead the rights of a theist to have their religious beliefs observed. For instance, not working on a Sunday, prayer rooms at work and kosher meals being available. In my opinion NONE of those things are a right. The state has no obligation to provide for any of the religious customs. Instead it is down to the population as a whole to choose to respect these customs. Any litigation pertaining to religious 'rights' are absurd because they require by definition the need to endorse or accept a religion as valid. This brings all sorts of problems, even if we ignore the fact that you have to completely ignore the advancement of science to validate most religions, we are still presented with the issue of choosing which religions are deemed acceptable. Clearly most people believe that moderate Abrahamic religions are OK, but what about a rasta's right to smoke weed? Or the more fundamentalist's "right" to mutilate their daughter's clitoris?

    Right to free-thought, goes without saying, Religious rights? There are none, they are all privilege.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northumbrian View Post
    Not much of a surprise here. Catholic dogma on sex, marriage and contraception is not only designed to exert a malicious power over the subject population, but also to deprive them of the means of economic advancement, by ensuring that families bear more children than is sustainable. Keep em poor and uneducated, keep em coming to church and bowing to the priest, seems to be the motto of the Roman Catholic church. Note how Ireland's economic advancement went hand in hand with the breakdown of the old barriers of respect and deference towards the Catholic church.

    Although they lack the central organisation of the Catholics, much the same could be said for the Muslims too. The key to unlocking the potential of any population lies in the emancipation of women. Any society will flourish once you free women from the slavery of being baby-making machines, and allow them control over their own bodies and the ability to earn their own money.
    Although some of the above may have some truth in it, I believe the most important thing that holds a community back are the doctrines of the faith. The following quote is what has held Muslims back intellectually and culturally:

    Muhammad says Allah hates when you ask too many questions
    In Sahih al-Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:

    Volume 2, Book 24, Number 555:
    Narrated Ash-sha'bi:
    The clerk of Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba narrated, "Muawiya wrote to Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba: Write to me something which you have heard from the Prophet (p.b.u.h) ." So Al-Mughira wrote: I heard the Prophet saying, "Allah has hated for you three things:

    1. Vain talks, (useless talk) that you talk too much or about others.

    2. Wasting of wealth (by extravagance)

    3. And asking too many questions (in disputed religious matters) or asking others for something (except in great need).
    In Judaism and Christianity it is considered blasphemy to question the historicity of the prophets and the Creator.
    Last edited by MBPLee; 06-01-2017 at 08:58 PM.

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