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Thread: Should we act?

  1. #11
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    Are you seriously suggesting that there would be no problem without immigrants? If there are people not born in the UK in the numbers it is irrelevent? As this suspect has been sectioned almost immediately, it can be reasonably supposed there was no rational motive. The only thing you get right , is that we may never know what was in that mans mind. Serious complications can occur in anyones mental state in days, if not over night, would a PhD have succured his mental condition? Or would your reasons for asking that question also have nothing to do with what has happened here. Believe it or not Northumbrian, eye witness,s at the scene saw this guy and described him as black and wearing a very easy to recognise top. This was made public, so no conspiracy. The picture you complain about was taken by a camera on the bus, it clearly shows the top he was wearing. All of which was irrelevent because he was in custody from very early on. So to get back to what this was really all about, do us all a favour Northumbrian, write to your Tory MP and demand some action in getting something done to make our streets safer from these people who actually do not know what they do. And don,t be fobbed off with some rant about immigration, it,s a totally different problem.

  2. #12
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    Typical Tory attitude of complete ignorance when presented with the facts. You are aware these cuts have probably contributed to the death of this pretty young girl, and it is more likely many more mentally ill people will be walking the streets, and without the necessary care needed to keep them "stable".

    You've been waiting for this one haven't you Northumbrian; an immigrant murdering a British citizen. How do I know? Because you've been publishing a few stories where the murderer remains at large, and presumed by you to be an immigrant. Well, working from diminishing returns, one had come along at some point; in one case you considered a murdered young girl had probably ended up in a kebab. You seem to spend a lot of time presuming the facts of these cases that you post on the site, is this guy a racist? Did he only murder her because she was pretty? Because you seem to be awfully fascinated by these murders of young adults, in association with the race, nationality and religion of the suspects. Indeed, if this is what fascinates you righties, then I'm very glad I stand on the left. Seems a little perverted from my perspective, and wholly voyeuristic.

    If he was not mentally, ill, the reason would suppose this man would do his utmost to not get caught, such as committing the crime at night, whereupon his colour would be an undoubted advantage. However, this man seems to have been unconcerned about being caught or even fleeing the scene: "Police said the man had been regularly assessed by medical experts throughout his time in police custody. He was arrested near the scene of the attack." Indeed, we seem to be dealing with a mind that even seems rather blasť on the matter. Indeed, considering the chap wore a very recognisable jacket then he may have given it to a nearby tramp. If the suspect was picked up without the knife, but still wearing the jacket, then it should show he had some grasp of his mental faculties to get rid of the murder weapon, but not his jacket. Like you said Northumbrian, it all seems an irrelevancy now, as the chap has been sectioned and a trial a formality.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    Typical Tory attitude of complete ignorance when presented with the facts. You are aware these cuts have probably contributed to the death of this pretty young girl, and it is more likely many more mentally ill people will be walking the streets, and without the necessary care needed to keep them "stable".
    Care in the community has been inadequate for (some) mentally ill patients for a long time, including under the last Labour government. I don't think we need to be making party political propoganda out of this issue. If more money needs to be spent on preventing such people from harming others (or themselves) then I would support that extra spending. What is clear is that importing people with mental illnesses from a third world country like Swaziland is only going to add to our problems. Perhaps this chaps mental illness wasn't an issue when he was allowed in, but it doesn't harm to ask questions about what checks were made by the immigration authorities. Unfortunately, I suspect very few checks.

    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    You've been waiting for this one haven't you Northumbrian; an immigrant murdering a British citizen. How do I know? Because you've been publishing a few stories where the murderer remains at large, and presumed by you to be an immigrant. Well, working from diminishing returns, one had come along at some point; in one case you considered a murdered young girl had probably ended up in a kebab.
    According to the police she did end up in a kebab, but the trial collapsed on technicalities. Blame your human rights friends for that. If she had been black and the perpetrators white, no doubt you lot would have been up in arms, as you were when the Stephen Lawrence suspects were aquitted. As it is, it is just a another senseless tragic murder of a British girl which you lefties want to sweep under the carpet and forget about.

    Its ridiculous to suggest I had to wait long for such a crime to take place. I could have posted details of a crime committed by immigrants against native people every day if I wanted to. Have you even watched Crimewatch lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    You seem to spend a lot of time presuming the facts of these cases that you post on the site, is this guy a racist? Did he only murder her because she was pretty? Because you seem to be awfully fascinated by these murders of young adults, in association with the race, nationality and religion of the suspects. Indeed, if this is what fascinates you righties, then I'm very glad I stand on the left. Seems a little perverted from my perspective, and wholly voyeuristic.
    Your assertions are so hilarious. So I have a perverted interest in such crimes do I? These crimes appall me and make me angry and I want to prevent them - what is wrong with that? What I wont do is stick my head in the sand like you and Mack do and pretend that immigration has nothing to do with the issue.

    I realise that this is embarrassing for you and Mack. After all, you have long supported a political party whose immigration policy was to open the door to millions of uneducated peasants from backward and violent third world countries.

    I tire of explaining this to you, but I am not racist - skin colour is irrelevant. However, culture and religion are not irrelevant. Not all cultures are equal, and I would say without embarrassment that English culture and civilisation is superior to the culture and civilisation from which many of these immigrants spring from. I take all individuals on their own merit. I'm sure there are plenty of immigrants with very black skin from very awful places (Somalia for example) who have come here and adapted to our culture and integrated into our nation. I would consider them as English as me or you. Look at Adam Afriyie for example - self-made millionaire and Tory MP - he is the son of a Ghanaian immigrant. As a black person who doesn't support socialism, you no doubt consider him a traitor. Hearteningly, he doesn't even refer to himself as black, but as "post-racial". A true Englishman.

    However, why do you deny the obvious point that some immigrants will bring their culture with them to Britain, and if that culture involves violence, rape, drugs, knives, guns, gangs and organised crime, then these immigrants are more likely to commit these crimes than indigenous people. Its all about treating people as individuals, whatever their origin, but recognising that there are statistical patterns. Given these statistical patterns, why don't we adapt our immigration system to only let in people who would be an asset to us, and who would more readily adapt to our culture. People from the third world do not have an automatic human right to settle in Britain, just because they want to. It should be a privilege that has to be earned. Its about prevention and the protection of our nation, something that Labour criminally neglected. We maintain our armed forces to prevent foreign armies over-running our land, so why don't we protect our borders with the same vigilance?
    Last edited by Northumbrian; 03-09-2013 at 10:39 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mack View Post
    Are you seriously suggesting that there would be no problem without immigrants? If there are people not born in the UK in the numbers it is irrelevent? As this suspect has been sectioned almost immediately, it can be reasonably supposed there was no rational motive. The only thing you get right , is that we may never know what was in that mans mind. Serious complications can occur in anyones mental state in days, if not over night, would a PhD have succured his mental condition? Or would your reasons for asking that question also have nothing to do with what has happened here. Believe it or not Northumbrian, eye witness,s at the scene saw this guy and described him as black and wearing a very easy to recognise top. This was made public, so no conspiracy. The picture you complain about was taken by a camera on the bus, it clearly shows the top he was wearing. All of which was irrelevent because he was in custody from very early on. So to get back to what this was really all about, do us all a favour Northumbrian, write to your Tory MP and demand some action in getting something done to make our streets safer from these people who actually do not know what they do. And don,t be fobbed off with some rant about immigration, it,s a totally different problem.
    It is doubtful a PhD would ever come in contact with this level of mental health. It is more likely these sick people will come into contact with a third, two-two if they are lucky. The main cover would be down to the nursing staff, and recent news reports of shocking conditions and treatment of the inmates indicates the less spent on these critical services moves our system of mental health towards the Victorian era. Further isolation and brutalisation of people will continue for people who's only crime in life was to be born or suffer some terrible psychological condition, and their merer presence in the community can create a general fear within that community which marginalises and drives the person further away from society and more into their own nightmarish existence.

    So once society has driven the monster away with fire and mob rule, that only leaves the GP and the drug companies. And so we must be certain of the psychological credentials of the GP abd cannot doubt the motivation of the privately run drug companies.
    Last edited by eatmywords; 03-09-2013 at 11:00 PM.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northumbrian View Post
    Care in the community has been inadequate for (some) mentally ill patients for a long time, including under the last Labour government. I don't think we need to be making party political propoganda out of this issue. If more money needs to be spent on preventing such people from harming others (or themselves) then I would support that extra spending. What is clear is that importing people with mental illnesses from a third world country like Swaziland is only going to add to our problems. Perhaps this chaps mental illness wasn't an issue when he was allowed in, but it doesn't harm to ask questions about what checks were made by the immigration authorities. Unfortunately, I suspect very few checks.
    I don't think it is money specifically that can sort out the majority of mental health issues. Mental health needs time and patience, and in many regards the Victorians were right in building these harsh and cruel utilitarian institutions that observed the actions of the mentally sick and damaged. It would be a wonderful society if we could include such people in day to day context. Time and again however, it is shown society is not that forgiving or patient, and indeed, when a child goes missing, turns up dead, abused, or any of those crimes that are sexually or unusually brutal, then the eye of suspicion falls first on these people who in many cases could not hurt a fly.



    According to the police she did end up in a kebab, but the trial collapsed on technicalities. Blame your human rights friends for that. If she had been black and the perpetrators white, no doubt you lot would have been up in arms, as you were when the Stephen Lawrence suspects were aquitted. As it is, it is just a another senseless tragic murder of a British girl which you lefties want to sweep under the carpet and forget about.

    Its ridiculous to suggest I had to wait long for such a crime to take place. I could have posted details of a crime committed by immigrants against native people every day if I wanted to. Have you even watched Crimewatch lately?
    Well, it wouldn't be the first time I'd eaten a woman.



    Your assertions are so hilarious. So I have a perverted interest in such crimes do I? These crimes appall me and make me angry and I want to prevent them - what is wrong with that? What I wont do is stick my head in the sand like you and Mack do and pretend that immigration has nothing to do with the issue.

    I realise that this is embarrassing for you and Mack. After all, you have long supported a political party whose immigration policy was to open the door to millions of uneducated peasants from backward and violent third world countries.

    I tire of explaining this to you, but I am not racist - skin colour is irrelevant. However, culture and religion are not irrelevant. Not all cultures are equal, and I would say without embarrassment that English culture and civilisation is superior to the culture and civilisation from which many of these immigrants spring from. I take all individuals on their own merit. I'm sure there are plenty of immigrants with very black skin from very awful places (Somalia for example) who have come here and adapted to our culture and integrated into our nation. I would consider them as English as me or you. Look at Adam Afriyie for example - self-made millionaire and Tory MP - he is the son of a Ghanaian immigrant. As a black person who doesn't support socialism, you no doubt consider him a traitor. Hearteningly, he doesn't even refer to himself as black, but as "post-racial". A true Englishman.

    However, why do you deny the obvious point that some immigrants will bring their culture with them to Britain, and if that culture involves violence, rape, drugs, knives, guns, gangs and organised crime, then these immigrants are more likely to commit these crimes than indigenous people. Its all about treating people as individuals, whatever their origin, but recognising that there are statistical patterns. Given these statistical patterns, why don't we adapt our immigration system to only let in people who would be an asset to us, and who would more readily adapt to our culture. People from the third world do not have an automatic human right to settle in Britain, just because they want to. It should be a privilege that has to be earned. Its about prevention and the protection of our nation, something that Labour criminally neglected. We maintain our armed forces to prevent foreign armies over-running our land, so why don't we protect our borders with the same vigilance?
    I don't feel embarrassed Northumbrian for this chap, more for you.
    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    Well, it wouldn't be the first time I'd eaten a woman.
    I imagine that Charlene Downes' parents wouldn't find that very amusing. But then in the world of the socialist, they don't count for anything, do they?

    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    I don't feel embarrassed Northumbrian for this chap, more for you.
    Why feel embarrassed for me? I'm not the one whose run out of arguments to counter the very sensible and non-racist points I am making. To give credit where credit is due, most socialists start hurling vindictive personal abuse at someone with centre-right opinions at this point. I guess if all you can say is that you feel "embarrassed" for me, I have come off lightly.

    Looks like I've won the argument then!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northumbrian View Post

    Looks like I've won the argument then!
    If you had ever addressed the actual subject, there may have been a debate here Northumbrian, and you are deluded if you think not mentioning colour prevents you from being considered racist. So you win nothing in the argument that would not have been, if you had not insisted on it. Going by your posts , it would seem that in your eyes only a few are fit to walk the ground you walk, so its a narrow line you walk.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mack View Post
    If you had ever addressed the actual subject, there may have been a debate here Northumbrian, and you are deluded if you think not mentioning colour prevents you from being considered racist. So you win nothing in the argument that would not have been, if you had not insisted on it. Going by your posts , it would seem that in your eyes only a few are fit to walk the ground you walk, so its a narrow line you walk.
    You and Eatmy are like the same cracked record. In the real world, you know that it is you, not me, who are in a tiny minority on this issue, not that in itself that wins the argument for me. I put a lot of points forward which were completely ignored by you and Eatmy. In his last post, Eatmy responded to an entire section of argument from me by first of all insulting a murdered 14 year old girl, and then a single dismissive sentence attacking me personally. Left-wingers always follow the same tactic when confronted by truth's they do not like. (1) deflect the issue by the use of straw man arguments, (2) falsely accuse opponent of racism or something else unpleasant, (3) personal abuse.

    Neither of you have ever addressed my core point which is that it would be a prudent idea to be more selective on who we allow in to the country and to do more background checking first, including (as this case highlighted) the mental health of the would-be immigrant. As much as you would like Britain to be a "drop-in centre" for the world's waifs and strays, our country is actually a business not a social welfare organisation. As well as protecting our citizens from harm, our country needs to make a profit so we can pay for the things we all like, like the NHS and free education. Your politics, as always, puts this aspect of our society in jeopardy.

    Racism is discrimination based on skin colour, pure and simple. You are the one who is deluded if you think you can redefine racism on your own terms as a weapon to bully someone you don't agree with. To make statistical (not individual) observations regarding immigrant groups, and the impact which immigration has on our society, is not racist, even using your half-baked assumption that I am using "immigrant" as a proxy for "race" (I am not ... many immigrants have white skin, and many people I consider English, Adam Afriyie for example, have black skin). Racism is something I would never do, and which I oppose whenever I see it. I consider racism to be not just anti-social, but also from a scientific point-of-view (recall that my background is in science) as simply wrong. It is an absolute disgrace that those on the bullying left like yourself seek to shut down any debate on immigration by branding those of us who have concerns about "open door" immigration as racists.
    Last edited by Northumbrian; 03-11-2013 at 03:14 AM.

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