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Thread: Time for Justice

  1. #11
    Super Moderator eatmywords's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rook View Post
    No, I don't. Your argument is akin to saying a battered woman must prefer to stay with her abusive, wife-beating husband than leave. The only difference being these are children we are talking about, who are even less able to stand up to manipulative and controlling bullies. There is no 'choice' no 'preference' here, these are drugged induced 12 year olds we are talking about
    Okay then, the method these animals used were more effective than those who were there trying to help them. I'm not taking sides, again, just stating a fact.
    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Rook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    Okay then, the method these animals used were more effective than those who were there trying to help them. I'm not taking sides, again, just stating a fact.
    That's a fact which isn't needed to be said really, but why are you not taking sides? I'm firmly on the side of the girls, it sounds as though you are on the fence when it comes to these men though??

  3. #13
    Super Moderator eatmywords's Avatar
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    Just trying to be objective. Nothing denying the fact these men committed heinous crimes and will be punished quite severely by the law, but I did note from the Rochdale case the teenage girls were running into the arms of these exploiters. So if these men are offering something lower-class society can't provide, then I think the moral example needs to be addressed there also.
    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Rook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    Just trying to be objective. Nothing denying the fact these men committed heinous crimes and will be punished quite severely by the law, but I did note from the Rochdale case the teenage girls were running into the arms of these exploiters. So if these men are offering something lower-class society can't provide, then I think the moral example needs to be addressed there also.
    What moral example? These men offered stuff lower-class society (whatever that is?) shouldn't be providing to underage girls - drink, sex, drugs etc.

    Do you think the fact that these girls 'ran' into the arms of these men, mitigates the crimes they committed?

  5. #15
    Super Moderator eatmywords's Avatar
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    Depends on whether you consider poverty a crime.
    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Rook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    Depends on whether you consider poverty a crime.
    Explain?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rook View Post
    Do you think the fact that these girls 'ran' into the arms of these men, mitigates the crimes they committed?
    From reading these posts, it would seem that is exactly what Eatmy thinks. I am usually pretty tolerant of Eatmy's views, extreme and barmy as they often are. However, to suggest that 11 or 12 year old girls were even 1% to blame for the rape, abuse, beatings and torture they endured is pretty much beyond the pale to me. I can't help wondering if Eatmy would hold the same opinion if the perpetrators were not muslim. The irony of the muslim-socialist alliance is that it is Eatmy's politics which would be cracked down upon first if this country ever found itself under Sharia law.

    Perhaps I am being harsh to Eatmy, and the truth is that he is utterly naive regarding the methods used by these men to exploit and abuse these girls. I'm sure that the men did offer something to the girls initially. No matter how caring the staff of a children's home can be, there is no way that council care can take the place of two loving parents and a secure home. These men would have lavished these girls with attention and presents. In their innocence, they thought these men cared or even loved them. How would they know any different, given the troubled homes some of them came from?

    Of course, once the girls were sucked in, the control and the domination and the psychological warfare would begin. The girls would be blackmailed and threatened into more and more depraved activities, and made to feel like they were the ones responsible. Perhaps they were told pictures of them would be placed on the internet, or that they would be beaten if they didn't do as they were told. They were forced to take drugs until they were addicted to them, and then of course they had to come to the men for more drugs. These girls would have ended up believing that these men owned them, and that wherever they went the men would find them. The girls would have felt so ashamed that they wouldn't have wanted to tell another adult about what was happening to them. The few times that a girl did pick up the courage to tell a social worker or the police, they were ignored. I can't even imagine the hell that those girls endured, so perhaps Eatmy needs to consider that before making statements like "they went running into the arms of these men".

  8. #18
    Super Moderator eatmywords's Avatar
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    I suppose on whether you consider there is any blame on the part of these girls to keep running into the arms of these men. There must be some failing in their parents, their home-life, their education and/or their employment opportunities for them to consider a life of crime and dependency far more appealing that whatever they are running away from. By 11 I was pretty astute to not speaking to strangers or taking things from strangers. But the time I was 15 I was aware paying for sex was wrong, and so were drugs. I think if this lifestyle is starting to attract young girls away from what they know to exist, then you either accept there is something wrong in these girls lives, or there's something wrong with these girls. You mentioned a battered wife before, but a woman who runs away from such a person is clearly doing the right thing, in your eyes, so whatever these girls are running away from must be the wrong thing, to them. If they are being subsumed in a life of sex, prostitution, addiction, then it is a life more promising, to them.

    Clearly there is a market in this society that is being exploited by unscrupulous people, which then indicates a failure in the capitalist sector; failing to attract potential workers to legitimate employment. I'm sure Northumbrian sees immigration as the crime, and in some part these crimes to seem to be particular in Muslim men, but this doesn't necessarily mean white men aren't prostituting young girls, making them drug-dependent and/or abusing them less than the homes they are fleeing. Just because this crime seems to be based on colour doesn't make it any less a class issue. As with any crime I would imagine it better to address the cause of the problem rather than the effect.
    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Rook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    I suppose on whether you consider there is any blame on the part of these girls to keep running into the arms of these men. There must be some failing in their parents, their home-life, their education and/or their employment opportunities for them to consider a life of crime and dependency far more appealing that whatever they are running away from. By 11 I was pretty astute to not speaking to strangers or taking things from strangers. But the time I was 15 I was aware paying for sex was wrong, and so were drugs. I think if this lifestyle is starting to attract young girls away from what they know to exist, then you either accept there is something wrong in these girls lives, or there's something wrong with these girls. You mentioned a battered wife before, but a woman who runs away from such a person is clearly doing the right thing, in your eyes, so whatever these girls are running away from must be the wrong thing, to them. If they are being subsumed in a life of sex, prostitution, addiction, then it is a life more promising, to them.
    You sound very much like an apologist for these men. You question whether we can apportion blame to 12 year olds?? Wtf are you talking about?

    You operate under the illusion that it is a push which attracts the girls to these cunts, when in reality, it is those cunts PULLING those girls towards them with threats of menace, and the allure of drink and drugs. Do you really believe (as surely you must) that if these particular men were not there, these girls would actively seek out men to urinate on them in order to get away from their environment?

  10. #20
    Super Moderator eatmywords's Avatar
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    I'm not apologising for anyone, but I think you have to accept, as much as there is a breakdown in the legal understanding of these men, there must be, at least, a moral failing in the background of these girls to keep going to these men for whatever satisfaction they seem to want.

    I really don't see how you can come to the conclusion I'm defending the actions of these men, when I'm merely questioning why "a battered wife" continually runs into the arms of her abuser.
    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

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