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Thread: Time for Justice

  1. #21
    Senior Member Rook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    I'm not apologising for anyone, but I think you have to accept, as much as there is a breakdown in the legal understanding of these men, there must be, at least, a moral failing in the background of these girls to keep going to these men for whatever satisfaction they seem to want.

    I really don't see how you can come to the conclusion I'm defending the actions of these men, when I'm merely questioning why "a battered wife" continually runs into the arms of her abuser.
    Because you are essentially arguing that these woman WANTED to be urinated on more than they wanted to stay in their care homes. That they were ATTRACTED to such vile men because of the quality of their care-home environment. You seem to completely disregard the idea that these girls were effectively FORCED in the arms of these men by threats of menace, and the allure of drink and drugs.

  2. #22
    Super Moderator eatmywords's Avatar
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    No, I'm saying whatever it is they are running away from must be "less worse" that what they are running towards. How do you force a child into the arms of a stranger? Wouldn't you tell your parents if someone was threatening you with violence, drugs and sex?
    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Rook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    No, I'm saying whatever it is they are running away from must be "less worse" that what they are running towards. How do you force a child into the arms of a stranger? Wouldn't you tell your parents if someone was threatening you with violence, drugs and sex?
    It is not as simple as that. It may surprise you, but children usually do not like to discuss with their parents the fact a man pissed on them and that they have been fucked by their adult 'boyfriend' and a gang of his mates. You seem to have zero ability to place yourself into the minds of these extremely young, abused and vulnerable children

  4. #24
    Super Moderator eatmywords's Avatar
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    Indeed, I have zero ability to empathise with children who go seeking men to provide them with sex, drugs and money, and urine it seems, because that was beyond my understanding and education as a child.

    I find it remarkable that you accept pissing on a child is morally wrong, but willingly going to these men to provide them with whatever it is that entertains them, is not morally wrong. Of course it's the men's fault, because that's who is getting locked up isn't it. But do you think these children's lives are now better because of this? Or do you think they may go searching for a new group of men? I suppose that's irrelevant because the motive of the news story is not really about these children is it.
    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Rook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    Indeed, I have zero ability to empathise with children who go seeking men to provide them with sex, drugs and money, and urine it seems, because that was beyond my understanding and education as a child.

    I find it remarkable that you accept pissing on a child is morally wrong, but willingly going to these men to provide them with whatever it is that entertains them, is not morally wrong.
    I will not pass moral judgements on 12 years. I do not believe that they are capable of informed consent when it comes to being manipulated by adult predators. Once again, you fail to address the issue of these children being FORCED (by threats of menace, by drink and drugs) into the arms of these men. You seem to think they all wanted it?

    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    Of course it's the men's fault, because that's who is getting locked up isn't it.
    What do you mean by that exactly?? Do you accept that these men should be locked up for a very long time?

    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    But do you think these children's lives are now better because of this? Or do you think they may go searching for a new group of men?
    MUCH better now that these men are behind bars. No, these women will not go looking for a new group of men. I am convinced you are nothing but an apologist for these 'men'

    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    I suppose that's irrelevant because the motive of the news story is not really about these children is it.
    YOUR motive has nothing to do with the safety of the children, no.

  6. #26
    Super Moderator eatmywords's Avatar
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    You are so convinced with your own opinions Rook that you cannot accept anyone else's. You are so convinced these girls will not go looking for a new group of men, but this is the second case within 12 months, so how can you be certain? You are certain the welfare state did everything they could to protect these children. You are convinced there is nothing going on in these girls lives to turn them to this life. You are certain about everything but the reality of the situation, that, at some point, these girls found these men, and became snared in their deceit and brutality.

    And I would rather you didn't assume what I think, otherwise I will start assuming about what you think.
    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

  7. #27
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    Are you defending these men because they are muslim Eatmy, and attacking these girls because they are white? Because nothing you are saying makes any sense at all, and for someone who claims to be a "socialist" and therefore a champion of the weak, your comments lack any sort of empathy for these girls who have suffered the most appalling abuse imaginable.

    I don't know how many times me or Rook have to explain it, but these girls never ever "ran into the arms of these men" or "looked for a group of men" knowing that they would be raped, beaten and tortured. The men would have posed as friends of the girls, paying them attention and buying them gifts. Being 11 year old girls, they would not have been aware of their intentions, only that for once in their short lives an adult was paying them attention and apparently "caring" for them. Of course, once the girls had been worn down by being forced to take part in degrading acts they didn't even understand and made dependent on drugs, they would have found it difficult to get away from these men. Don't confuse this with loyalty Eatmy. There are only a certain number of times a young child can be pissed on or have a baseball bat painfully rammed into her private parts whilst a group of men laugh and cheer, that she can keep any sense of self-esteem and not believe what the men told her that she is a worthless piece of white trash and she belonged to them, and they would find her if she ever left them.

    Blame the girls parents if you like Eatmy, or the useless social workers who were supposed to be looking after them. Blame the police for ignoring the girls when they asked for help. Even blame society (as you like to do) for creating the poverty which most (but not all) of these girls came from. But please Eatmy don't suggest that these girls are even the tiniest amount to blame for the horrendous things which happened to them, and please don't suggest that the scum who did this to them deserve any sort of leniency.

  8. #28
    Super Moderator eatmywords's Avatar
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    At which point have I defended them? And they did go back to these men Northumbrian, in this case they broke out of a children's home to get back to them.

    That is the point I'm trying to make, although I wouldn't blame the police so much as the Social Care system, and the parenting system. If these girls were not aware that the actions of these men were wrong, then we have to blame someone, or something, on that side of the system; whether that be the parents, the Social Services or even education. I just think children are growing up too quick in society today, and if being "pissed" on, as Rook stated, is worth a few pounds in the pocket, then what kind of moral values are these children being taught?
    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    At which point have I defended them? And they did go back to these men Northumbrian, in this case they broke out of a children's home to get back to them.
    I think you'll find that children in care are not locked inside their bedrooms, so I don't see how they could "break out". If the girls "returned" to the men it was because they were being psychologically manipulated, blackmailed, threatened with violence and quite possibly had been made dependent on drugs. Given that the men had been able to act with inpunity for many years, why would the girls not believe their threats?

    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    I just think children are growing up too quick in society today, and if being "pissed" on, as Rook stated, is worth a few pounds in the pocket, then what kind of moral values are these children being taught?
    You really need to actually read the facts on this case, instead of making presumptions. The idea that an 11 or 12 year old girl would consent to being "pissed on" (actually one of the least abuses that they endured) shows how out of touch you are. Also, these girls were not prostitutes. They were not being paid to perform degrading sex acts or to allow themselves to be tortured, although as I have said they were initially lured into the mens clutches with the help of gifts and presents. That is not to say that the men didn't prostitute the girls to other men - however, they kept the money.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Rook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    You are so convinced with your own opinions Rook that you cannot accept anyone else's.
    I can not accept opinions pulled from one's arse, no sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    You are so convinced these girls will not go looking for a new group of men, but this is the second case within 12 months, so how can you be certain?
    2nd case involving two different groups of girls. These girls are now older, wiser and considering they've spent a great deal of time and effort in putting these men behind bars, I doubt they'll now go looking for more of the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    You are certain the welfare state did everything they could to protect these children. You are convinced there is nothing going on in these girls lives to turn them to this life.
    You have just made that up

    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    You are certain about everything but the reality of the situation, that, at some point, these girls found these men, and became snared in their deceit and brutality.
    The men found the girls. But I accept that they became snared, what I don't accept (and for which you have no real evidence for) is that these girls actively WANTED to be deceived and brutalised.

    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    And I would rather you didn't assume what I think, otherwise I will start assuming about what you think.
    You already have!

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