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Thread: Police Stop and Searches Lawful or unjustified

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    Post Police Stop and Searches Lawful or unjustified

    Police Stop and Searches Lawful or unjustified Ė The Facts and Figures

    In todayís world it seems to be the normal thing for a police officer to just stop someone in the street and request there details, interrogate them and subject them to undignified personal searches. Is this because they suspect a crime? Well of course, because an officer of the law can only do this if they suspect crime and I say suspect because they donít need any evidence that a crime has been committed.

    In the year 2010/11 there was a total recorded number of stop and searches of 1,205,495 with Londonís metropolitan police making up a staggering 43% of all stop and searches.

    Of all stop and searches, 3.5% lead to arrest for possession of drugs, 2.4% for stolen property and just over 1% for possession of offensive weapons. More than 90% of stop and searches resulted in no arrest or crime being detected.


    90% of stop and searches resulted in no further action


    There is major and unjustified ethnic discrimination in who is stopped. Asian people are stop and searched at twice the rate of a white person, and a black person is stopped and searched 7 times the rate of a white person. If a white person experienced the same level of stop and search as a black person there would be an additional 4.4 million stop and searches each year.

    Only 1 in 10 stop and searches leads to an arrest, number of searches up by 60% and number of arrests is down by 30%.


    The six main police forces in stop and searches are Northumbria Police, West Yorkshire Police, Merseyside Police, Metropolitan Police, Thames Valley Police and Greater Manchester Police.

    What are Police targeting with stop and search: 49% Drugs, 20% Stolen Property, 13% going equipped, 10% offensive weapons, 1% firearms and 8% on other things not specified.

    The numbers seem to show the number of stop and searches carried out is unreasonable in the amount of arrested that are carried out. It is a sign of shear police abuse of powers.

    Do you have to give personal details to a officer on request: I do not believe you have to lawfully provide a officer with details requested unless there is reasonable grounds to suspect you have committed a criminal offence. So if you are just walking along the street and you are stopped by the police. Refuse to provide any details they may became abusive and threaten you with arrest but do not be intimidated by them. Try to record an officerís conduct on your mobile phone and file a complaint with their professional standards department.

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    Super Moderator eatmywords's Avatar
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    You only have to give your name and address upon request, and nothing further; you have a right to silence before an arrest as well as after you know. But being unhelpful in an officer's inquiries will only be met with equal belligerence and so detaining you unnecessarily. However, for an officer to demand a search of you or your property, then they must have grounds for a crime to have been committed, and you are then considered a suspect in their investigations. There is a very broad remit of definition in this action, and an officer merely has to say a crime has taken place for them to have grounds to stop you; which is not actually the case. Things can become increasingly different if you request the officer to therefore record the procedure and to then provide you with a crime number following their stop and search, whereupon most of these problems quickly evaporate.
    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

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    Senior Member Rook's Avatar
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    I grew up in a very rough part of South London, and I was glad that the police undertook stop and search. As a white boy, I didn't get stopped, but I did get mugged occassionally, and it was a comfort knowing that at least the muggers were less likely to be carrying a weapon - due to their fear of being stopped and searched.

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    I to grew up in a rough part of South London, many years ago, and I was stopped on a few occassions, and on one occassion got a slap, for getting lippy. I don,t hold it against them, I asked for it , and I ,m sure it did no lasting harm, in fact it helped straighten me out. There are I dare say times when the police are over the top. But like I had to , maybe some of those who do so much complaining, should consider checking themselves out . At the end of the day this process is not life threatening, it,s carried out for everyones benefit. Examine your own behaviour and attitude, keep your nose clean, and you won,t come to any harm. It,s not a new situation, and not half as inconvenient as getting mugged at knife point by someone you wished had been stopped and searched before they bumped into you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garywilson1987 View Post
    Do you have to give personal details to a officer on request: I do not believe you have to lawfully provide a officer with details requested unless there is reasonable grounds to suspect you have committed a criminal offence. So if you are just walking along the street and you are stopped by the police. Refuse to provide any details they may became abusive and threaten you with arrest but do not be intimidated by them. Try to record an officer’s conduct on your mobile phone and file a complaint with their professional standards department.
    Welcome to the forum Gary, though I have to say I don't agree with your post in the slightest. Why are you encouraging people not to co-operate with the police who are just trying to do their job and keep us all safe? Anyone who behaves arrogantly like this to a police officer deserves to be arrested in my opinion.

    Do you have a sister or a daughter Gary? How would you feel if she was mugged/assaulted/raped on her way home because a police officer DIDN'T stop and search her attacker, who was looking suspicious or acting suspiciously and carrying a knife?

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    Ding, my first post!

    Firstly, stop and searches in the London area went up dramatically since the London bombings, a lot of people stopped are wearing rucksacks, Knife crime isn't the only reason they are going on.
    Secondly, It's a well known fact that most stop and searches are on people of African/Asian decent, who are the exact type of decent that bombed London.
    Thirdly, It's also a known fact the vast majority of knife crime committed in London is by non whites, ironically, the attacks are mostly against other non whites, i don't need facts and figures to prove this just go put on a news channel, in fact only the other day a young Bangladeshi kid was stabbed to death by a Pakistani man in Poplar east London, its near enough constant now.
    And the last point is that you don't seem to understand the knock on effect this has, these teenage tow rags are fighting everyday over area codes but they're not constantly carrying weapons 24/7 exactly because of the stop and searches, they have to plan when they are going to attack someone, if that deterrent wasn't in place then the crime rates would obviously go up.

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    Administrator Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pathos87 View Post
    Ding, my first post!

    Firstly, stop and searches in the London area went up dramatically since the London bombings, a lot of people stopped are wearing rucksacks, Knife crime isn't the only reason they are going on.
    Secondly, It's a well known fact that most stop and searches are on people of African/Asian decent, who are the exact type of decent that bombed London.
    Thirdly, It's also a known fact the vast majority of knife crime committed in London is by non whites, ironically, the attacks are mostly against other non whites, i don't need facts and figures to prove this just go put on a news channel, in fact only the other day a young Bangladeshi kid was stabbed to death by a Pakistani man in Poplar east London, its near enough constant now.
    And the last point is that you don't seem to understand the knock on effect this has, these teenage tow rags are fighting everyday over area codes but they're not constantly carrying weapons 24/7 exactly because of the stop and searches, they have to plan when they are going to attack someone, if that deterrent wasn't in place then the crime rates would obviously go up.
    Welcome Pathos87. Is there evidence for this, or is that just the perception? I don't claim to know much about gang warfare in London, but from I have seen, there's plenty of white kids involved too.
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    From what I've seen, gangs seem to be locality-based rather than ethnically-based — though it's probably true the two are sometimes synonymous. But I can only speak for my area (Hackney and around). Even then I don't which are gangs in the negative sense or groups of kids just hanging out. Regrettably, there is violence, though nowhere near as much as Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells might believe.

    Quite honestly, I don't know whether stop and search, as it's applied, helps or hinders. In my own case (Black, 31, 6'1", small beard shaved head, sometimes casually dressed, other times in business/office attire) I get stopped on average two or three times a month. Treatment can be polite, excessively polite to the point of insolence, or surly and bullying. The only response is to take it and not be goaded into a reaction, then move on. Even in the car, I'll frequently get pulled over — though tellingly, not when the Nordic GF is sitting in the seat nearest the traffic-scanning officers.

    I know the Police have a tough job to do. But until they manage to stamp out the White macho gang culture within their own ranks, they won't get the support they say they want...
    Last edited by Patman Post; 08-16-2013 at 11:04 AM. Reason: say Hi to Gary/Pathos (are you the same?)

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    Super Moderator eatmywords's Avatar
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    I think in the majority of cases a person is armed with a knife for self-protection more than any offensive action.
    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

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    You are not allowed to carry anything for self protection and carrying a knife or any other object without a reasonable excuse or lawful authority for self protection you are liable to be arrested for possession of an offensive weapon, we need less weapons on our streets not more.

    As for stop and search Police must comply with the PACE Act and have reasonable grounds to stop and search you and justify it , I believe I am correct in saying you are not obliged to give your personal details if you have not committed an offence and they must give you a copy of their record of where you were stopped why and the Officer who stopped you details rank name shoulder number and station attached to.

    I live and work in London it is not uncommon when using the tube to have to walk through metal detectors or past sniffer drug dogs its no big deal, even ticket collectors have a right to stop you and authority to demand your details if you have no valid ticket.

    I have been stopped a couple of times when much younger again no big deal, I want our Police to be more proactive in this day and age, but they are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't, we can't have it both ways.

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