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Thread: Why I love America

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    Default Why I love America

    Ariel Castro has just been sentenced to life in prison PLUS one thousand years for kidnapping and repeatedly raping and assaulting three young women in Ohio.

    America is not perfect and there are lots of things the American's do that I don't agree with. However, on this issue you can't take anything away from the Americans. They put the rights of victims in front of the rights of criminals. Compare Castro's sentence with the insulting 15 months initially given to Stuart Hall for sexually abusing girls as young as 9 (now mercifully increased to a still absurdly lenient 30 months). Even the Oxford sadistic paedophile ring were only given sentences from 7 years to 20 years, and therefore will still be young men when released - yet these crimes were as bad, if not worse, than Castro's.

    Time to ditch Europe and do things the American way (without the death penalty of course).

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    Super Moderator eatmywords's Avatar
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    lol. Sex addiction. Brilliant defence.
    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

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    Administrator Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northumbrian View Post
    Ariel Castro has just been sentenced to life in prison PLUS one thousand years for kidnapping and repeatedly raping and assaulting three young women in Ohio.

    America is not perfect and there are lots of things the American's do that I don't agree with. However, on this issue you can't take anything away from the Americans. They put the rights of victims in front of the rights of criminals. Compare Castro's sentence with the insulting 15 months initially given to Stuart Hall for sexually abusing girls as young as 9 (now mercifully increased to a still absurdly lenient 30 months). Even the Oxford sadistic paedophile ring were only given sentences from 7 years to 20 years, and therefore will still be young men when released - yet these crimes were as bad, if not worse, than Castro's.

    Time to ditch Europe and do things the American way (without the death penalty of course).
    I'm all for tougher sentencing in some instances, but America's penal system is absolutely fucked. Bob forbid should we ever end up with a similar one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    I'm all for tougher sentencing in some instances, but America's penal system is absolutely fucked. Bob forbid should we ever end up with a similar one.
    Why absolutely fucked? Not perfect perhaps, but given that they get far more people into prison than we do, its not all bad news. The sentencing is far better than ours. I like the idea of sentences for multiple crimes running consecutively, rather than concurrently. I think if you are convicted of multiple crimes, you should serve a seperate prison sentence for each crime. This way the Oxford paedophiles would have been put away for centuries (i.e. till the end of their natural life) rather than just a few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northumbrian View Post
    Why absolutely fucked? Not perfect perhaps, but given that they get far more people into prison than we do, its not all bad news. The sentencing is far better than ours. I like the idea of sentences for multiple crimes running consecutively, rather than concurrently. I think if you are convicted of multiple crimes, you should serve a seperate prison sentence for each crime. This way the Oxford paedophiles would have been put away for centuries (i.e. till the end of their natural life) rather than just a few years.
    Personally, I think they have gone too far with their sentencing. The Three Strikes rule has resulted in some clearly unfair decisions - like the man currently serving 26 years for cheating on a driver's license test. The US system seems to view prison as a purely punitive measure rather than an opportunity for rehabilitation - and I believe this is reflected in their reoffending rates.

    I think we would all agree that there are certain UK cases where the sentence should have been longer - Hall etc - but going down the US road of headline grabbing "1,000 year" sentences is not helpful to justice. US prosecutors use such ridiculous sentences to pressure suspects into taking pleas bargains - which can lead to miscarriages of justice

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    Am I correct in thinking the two Western countries with the highest prison populations also have the highest crime rates...?

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    Administrator Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northumbrian View Post
    Why absolutely fucked? Not perfect perhaps, but given that they get far more people into prison than we do, its not all bad news.
    It's not bad news having the highest prison population in the world? Nearly DOUBLE that of their closest rival (China). 21% of that are pre-trial detainees who have not been convicted of ANY crime, and can be jailed for many years. The jails are often far worse than prisons too, extreme violence, corruption, and disgusting living conditions are the norm. You can be throw in jail for something as trivial as smoking a spliff. Can you really justify the expense of incarcerating someone for 20-30 years for smoking cannabis?

    http://www.prisonstudies.org/info/wo...ry=wb_poptotal

    The sentencing is far better than ours. I like the idea of sentences for multiple crimes running consecutively, rather than concurrently. I think if you are convicted of multiple crimes, you should serve a seperate prison sentence for each crime. This way the Oxford paedophiles would have been put away for centuries (i.e. till the end of their natural life) rather than just a few years.
    We're already #18 in the world for incarceration, it's also pretty clear looking at the statistics that Prison doesn't prevent crime. I'd much rather the money was spent on preventing crime happening in the first place (such as better education), than whacking on extra years across the boards just for the sake of it.

    America is in #9 in the world for violent crime, higher than any other Western Country, while having the highest prison population PER CAPITA than any other Western Country.
    http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top...ime-rates.html

    Don't even get me started on Guantanimo Bay.

    The fact remains that the UK has one of steepest declining crime rates in the world, I don't see throwing more people into crime university helping. In other words, with a few exceptions it seems to be one of the things the UK has about right at the moment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    It's not bad news having the highest prison population in the world? Nearly DOUBLE that of their closest rival (China). 21% of that are pre-trial detainees who have not been convicted of ANY crime, and can be jailed for many years. The jails are often far worse than prisons too, extreme violence, corruption, and disgusting living conditions are the norm.
    You mean they don't get Sky TV in their cells and are not allowed to take drugs or have sex with their partners whilst they are in jail? Diddums. Perhaps if our prisons were less pleasant, criminals would be more deterred from ending up there. Do you think I care about disgusting living conditions for prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    You can be throw in jail for something as trivial as smoking a spliff. Can you really justify the expense of incarcerating someone for 20-30 years for smoking cannabis?
    I'm pretty sure you are exaggerating here, but even if you are not it doesn't make any difference. If you know the punsihment for smoking cannabis is 20-30 years in jail, then obviously don't smoke cannabis. In the Gulf States, there are extreme penalties for "trivial" things like having sexual contact with someone in a public place - everyone knows about these laws and if you break them, you only have yourself to blame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    We're already #18 in the world for incarceration, it's also pretty clear looking at the statistics that Prison doesn't prevent crime. I'd much rather the money was spent on preventing crime happening in the first place (such as better education), than whacking on extra years across the boards just for the sake of it.
    I've never seen any evidence that backs up the left-wing mantra of "prison doesn't work". Countries like Singapore which have harsh penalties are safer and have less crime than countries with a more liberal approach. As for the education, I think that all the billions Labour spent on the gleaming inner-city academies proves that no amount of spending on education will engage those who are culturally and socially disengaged from society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    America is in #9 in the world for violent crime, higher than any other Western Country, while having the highest prison population PER CAPITA than any other Western Country.
    The reasons for this are not the long prison sentences, but the glaring inequalities in wealth and the easy availability of firearms. I guarantee that America's crime rate would increase still further if sentencing was more lenient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    The fact remains that the UK has one of steepest declining crime rates in the world, I don't see throwing more people into crime university helping. In other words, with a few exceptions it seems to be one of the things the UK has about right at the moment.
    The "declining" crime rate is all smoke and mirrors. People are less inclined to report minor crimes because they know how useless the police are. Similarly, the police have been encouraged not to log "minor" crimes such as vandalism or anti-social behaviour. Finally, car crime has dropped rapidly simply because of improvements in technology. The fact is that I would not feel safe walking alone through London or any major city in the middle of the night. Our justice system is therefore a failure.

    We should build more prisons and increase sentences. We could start by abolishing the "time off for good behaviour" nonsense and instead have "time added for bad behaviour". I personally am in favour of building a huge penal colony on a remote Scottish Island such as St Kilda or North Rona to house our most dangerous individuals. We are far too soft, and nowhere more so than in the issue of foreign and immigrant criminals. Mariusz Krezolek has just been jailed for 30 years for torturing 4 year old Daniel Pelka to death, along with his evil partner Magdelena Luczak. 30 years might seem a reasonable sentence. What has shocked me, however, is that Krezolek was jailed in the UK THREE TIMES previously for crimes of violence and burglary - and was wanted for similar offences in his native Poland. Why on hell's Earth was this man not deported to Poland before he had the chance to murder little Daniel? I'm sure the left-wing human-rights brigade will have their usual excuses.

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    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    What a wonderful graph if you are the victim of crime in America. Looks like they are getting ever more successful in locking the bad guys up.

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