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Thread: Fracking Morons

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    Default Fracking Morons

    Fracking is the most exciting development in Britain's energy industry since the discovery of North Sea Oil. It offers us the possibility of energy independence and low fuel prices for decades to come - probably until Nuclear Fusion comes online. No more ugly invasive and useless wind farms. No tidal barriers. Just clean fossil fuel energy, with no or little pollution. America is certainly taking advantage of this bonanza, and we will be left behind if we don't follow quickly. In the 1950's and 60's, we were world leaders in Nuclear Fission Power - but thanks to the likes of Greenpeace spouting their rubbish, we lost that advantage to other countries, like France. We can't let this happen again.

    Yet the morons and the retards have been out in full force to wreck things here. Eco-warriors peddling myths and scare stories, with about as much scientific credibility as the people who created the MMR scandal. Thanks to the protests in Balcombe, Sussex, Cuadrilla have abandoned their plans to drill there. The BBC are, of course, lapping it up. A few days ago I saw a news report where a stupid hippy woman was interviewed for 5 minutes about her mad beliefs and half-baked theories. No similar amount of time was given to any pro-fracking argument, and the reporter did nothing to challenge her. In fact, I'm sure I saw the same harridan at the Dale Farm and St Pauls Cathedral protests. They are agitators who just move from one leftist cause to the next one.

    How dare these protestors threaten the future economic success and prosperity of this country? I'm not opposed to people (even retards who are full of crap) peacefully protesting, providing they allow others to go about their lawful business. Cuadrilla were not doing anything wrong - they had all the legal permissions. Yet their lorries were being slowed down and impeded by these undemocratic thugs. Why were the riot police not sent in to clear them, with tear gas and rubber bullets if necessary? GET SOME BALLS CAMERON. Maggie would have sent the riot police in, god bless her.
    Last edited by Northumbrian; 08-18-2013 at 10:58 AM.

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    Are they fracking for gas or oil Northumbrian?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyof39 View Post
    Are they fracking for gas or oil Northumbrian?
    Its normally gas in shale deposits in mainland Britain, although I believe in the case of Balcombe its oil. It makes no difference - Cuadrilla were legally entitled to drill there, and their operations have been interrupted by protestors. This is wrong. At least that stupid Green Party MP woman got arrested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northumbrian View Post
    Fracking is the most exciting development in Britain's energy industry since the discovery of North Sea Oil. It offers us the possibility of energy independence and low fuel prices for decades to come - probably until Nuclear Fusion comes online.
    I don't seem to remember North Sea oil being that exciting. In fact it didn't stop prices quadrupling than trebling. Unless we're all going to quickly convert to gas powered cars I can't see how it's going to have any effect at all on petrol prices. In fact, I've yet to see any guarantee that it will reduce energy costs at all, we're already paying for it with the generous subsidies Dave has decided to give it with our tax money.

    Quite a gamble to choose this as a stop gap to Fusion Technology, which is losing investment money it's proving to be so impossible to produce.

    I also fail to understand why Fracking can be a stop gap technology, but windfarms cannot.

    No more ugly invasive and useless wind farms. No tidal barriers.
    Yes, we'll have beautiful fracking sites like these instead. Perfect place for a picnic!




    Just clean fossil fuel energy, with no or little pollution.
    HAHA! Sorry I had to laugh out loud at this one. Since when were fossil fuels clean?

    America is certainly taking advantage of this bonanza, and we will be left behind if we don't follow quickly. In the 1950's and 60's, we were world leaders in Nuclear Fission Power - but thanks to the likes of Greenpeace spouting their rubbish, we lost that advantage to other countries, like France. We can't let this happen again.
    Yes, I'm sure it's greenpeace's fault we haven't built more nuclear reactors.

    I wonder who'd decided not to subsidise nuclear power while subsidising fracking, then U-Turning on the whole thing when it was way too late?

    http://www.theguardian.com/environme...isters-reactor

    It's the Tory Government! WHoops!

    Yet the morons and the retards have been out in full force to wreck things here. Eco-warriors peddling myths and scare stories, with about as much scientific credibility as the people who created the MMR scandal. Thanks to the protests in Balcombe, Sussex, Cuadrilla have abandoned their plans to drill there. The BBC are, of course, lapping it up. A few days ago I saw a news report where a stupid hippy woman was interviewed for 5 minutes about her mad beliefs and half-baked theories. No similar amount of time was given to any pro-fracking argument, and the reporter did nothing to challenge her. In fact, I'm sure I saw the same harridan at the Dale Farm and St Pauls Cathedral protests. They are agitators who just move from one leftist cause to the next one.
    So you're scientific basis in favour of fracking is that these people are "stupid hippies?" Despite the fact that it has been proven to release significant amounts of methane into the atmosphere. Groundwater can easily be polluted from fracking, and that's not excluding the possibility of accidents - which never happen, ever.

    How dare these protestors threaten the future economic success and prosperity of this country? I'm not opposed to people (even retards who are full of crap) peacefully protesting, providing they allow others to go about their lawful business. Cuadrilla were not doing anything wrong - they had all the legal permissions. Yet their lorries were being slowed down and impeded by these undemocratic thugs. Why were the riot police not sent in to clear them, with tear gas and rubber bullets if necessary? GET SOME BALLS CAMERON. Maggie would have sent the riot police in, god bless her.
    Yes, lets invest in an ultimately doomed industry and further destroy the planet in the process for other generations to worry about. We'll ignore renewable energies like http://www.desertec.org/ which could supply all of North Africa and 15% of Europe with clean power.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northumbrian View Post
    Its normally gas in shale deposits in mainland Britain, although I believe in the case of Balcombe its oil. It makes no difference - Cuadrilla were legally entitled to drill there, and their operations have been interrupted by protestors. This is wrong. At least that stupid Green Party MP woman got arrested.
    It isn't wrong because there has been no evidence that there is any gas, nor will there be until the drilling has been carried out . . . by which time, of course, appalling damage will have been done to the environment for no material gain; and all this having inflicted so much totally unnecessary disruption and anxiety for the residents but with zilch to show for it, not to mention the 'blot on the landscape' when all Cuadrilla's gear has gone away thence to cause identical chaos somewhere else and to other villagers. As to the oil aspect - seismic testing, as I daresay any oil company will confirm - can always prove whether or not there are enough deposits worth mining before any damage to the environs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    I don't seem to remember North Sea oil being that exciting. In fact it didn't stop prices quadrupling than trebling. Unless we're all going to quickly convert to gas powered cars I can't see how it's going to have any effect at all on petrol prices. In fact, I've yet to see any guarantee that it will reduce energy costs at all, we're already paying for it with the generous subsidies Dave has decided to give it with our tax money.
    80% of petrol prices is tax, but thats another argument. What about our domestic energy costs? Do you not use natural gas in your home, or electricity generated from burning natural gas? Fracking gas is already lowering costs in the US, so why can't it here? As for your "generous subsidies" that is just a red herring - a drop in the ocean to help things get started. What about all the subsidies for your precious renewables?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    Quite a gamble to choose this as a stop gap to Fusion Technology, which is losing investment money it's proving to be so impossible to produce.
    That is what you are hoping, but I'm afraid a massive fusion reactor is being built in France (with UK support) which will produce commercial electricity, if all goes well. It must be a nightmare for the environmental lobby. Free clean energy from a nuclear source with no radioactive waste whatsoever. Perhaps we wont have to go back to living in mud huts like greenpeace wants us too, after all. Predictably, greenpeace have already declared themselves against fusion, even though they can't actually find any problem with it. A bit like their attitude to fracking really, with the scare stories about earthquakes (so weak you can't feel them) and water pollution (a minor risk that can be controlled).

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    I also fail to understand why Fracking can be a stop gap technology, but windfarms cannot.
    Because one gas-fired power station can produce as much electricity as a thousand wind turbines, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    Yes, we'll have beautiful fracking sites like these instead. Perfect place for a picnic!
    Are you saying this is any better?



    In the UK, most fracking wells will be hidden behind trees and you will not have anything like the density of wells shown in your picture. Also, I don't believe your picture shows fracking, but rather traditional vertical drilling. Fracking utilises horizontal drilling techniques which means that from one drill site you can access a large surface area of reservoir. You don't need well sites right next to each other!

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    HAHA! Sorry I had to laugh out loud at this one. Since when were fossil fuels clean?
    I said GAS was a clean fossil fuel. Burning natural gas produces no (or very little) sulphur emissions and no particulate matter (unlike coal and oil). In fact, the only "pollutant" it produces is plant food (otherwise known as CO2). Its a whole other thread but I am not convinced by the evidence that plant food causes global warming, but even if it does China is going to burn 100 times more coal than any amount of gas we can burn, so there is little point in us falling on our swords. The plant food is going to get into the atmosphere anyway.

    Its funny how environmentalists choose to blind themselves to the environmental impacts of renewable energies. Hydro power plants generate vast amounts of methane (400 times worse as a "greenhouse gas" than plant food) from rotting vegetation in reservoirs. The proposed Severn tidal barrier would destroy 90% of the UK's habitat for migrating birds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    Yes, I'm sure it's greenpeace's fault we haven't built more nuclear reactors.
    Actually it is, along with other environment groups who successfully turned public opinion against nuclear power through their lies and propoganda. In France, who started BEHIND us in the race for nuclear they now have about 80% of their energy from nuclear (compared to less than 20% and falling here). Who is laughing now? We are dependent on Russia and the Middle East for much of our energy, and if we want to build new nuclear power stations, we have to bring the French over to build them for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    I wonder who'd decided not to subsidise nuclear power while subsidising fracking, then U-Turning on the whole thing when it was way too late?
    It's the Tory Government! WHoops!
    Unfortunately, we have suffered weak-willed governments of all party persuasion who have never had the guts to take on the energy problem and tell the environmental lobbies to f**k off. We should have started a program of building new nuclear power stations 20 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    So you're scientific basis in favour of fracking is that these people are "stupid hippies?" Despite the fact that it has been proven to release significant amounts of methane into the atmosphere. Groundwater can easily be polluted from fracking, and that's not excluding the possibility of accidents - which never happen, ever.
    You are doing a piss poor job of fracking if you release methane into the atmosphere, given that methane is precisely the resource you are trying to collect. What accidents are you talking about? We already use natural gas to produce 40% of our electricity and most homes are already connected to the gas infrastructure. Yes gas explosions occasionally happen (I was nearly killed in one when I was 7 years old) but they are becoming rarer and fracking is not going to add to this ... its just a different way of extracting the gas. The accidents happen when gas leaks occur in the transport system, which already exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    Yes, lets invest in an ultimately doomed industry and further destroy the planet in the process for other generations to worry about. We'll ignore renewable energies like http://www.desertec.org/ which could supply all of North Africa and 15% of Europe with clean power.
    Cover half the Sahara with solar panels? Yes thats a practical and inexpensive solution. Do you really want to be dependent on North Africa for your energy needs? What happens when there is the next round of revolutions? Fracking is going to destroy the planet? That is a slight exaggeration isn't it Will?

    I get the impression that any solution which would provide UK citizens with cheap and plentiful energy, boost our economy, and allow us to stop worrying about "conserving energy" would be automatically opposed by left-wing and environmental groups, regardless of any science.
    Last edited by Northumbrian; 08-26-2013 at 09:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    I don't seem to remember North Sea oil being that exciting. In fact it didn't stop prices quadrupling than trebling. Unless we're all going to quickly convert to gas powered cars I can't see how it's going to have any effect at all on petrol prices. In fact, I've yet to see any guarantee that it will reduce energy costs at all, we're already paying for it with the generous subsidies Dave has decided to give it with our tax money.

    Quite a gamble to choose this as a stop gap to Fusion Technology, which is losing investment money it's proving to be so impossible to produce.

    I also fail to understand why Fracking can be a stop gap technology, but windfarms cannot.



    Yes, we'll have beautiful fracking sites like these instead. Perfect place for a picnic!
    Indeedy - what a bloody unsightedly mess of a once (probably) beautiful landscape, and it will probably stay that way for ever. This 'fracking' lark is the biggest scam/confidence trick on a gullible public since wind farms. Wish I'd bought some shares in the manufacturers of wind-turbines though - I'd be a rich man now!! Still maybe I haven't missed the boat after all - I'll buy some in fracking machines!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyof39 View Post
    It isn't wrong because there has been no evidence that there is any gas, nor will there be until the drilling has been carried out . . . by which time, of course, appalling damage will have been done to the environment for no material gain; and all this having inflicted so much totally unnecessary disruption and anxiety for the residents but with zilch to show for it, not to mention the 'blot on the landscape' when all Cuadrilla's gear has gone away thence to cause identical chaos somewhere else and to other villagers. As to the oil aspect - seismic testing, as I daresay any oil company will confirm - can always prove whether or not there are enough deposits worth mining before any damage to the environs.
    Seismic surveying only determines the underlying 3D physical structure of the rocks (changes in density, bedding planes, faults, anticlines, that sort of thing). It only gives clues to the geochemistry of the rocks. To fully determine the geology (and potential oil/gas yield) you need to test drill I'm afraid. As a former seismic surveyor I can confirm this! Few oil companies would risk sinking a full production well on the basis of seismic data alone.

    The villagers in Balcombe could not even see Cuadrilla's test site, as it was so well hidden by trees, and probably would have been unaware if they hadn't been lobbied by protestors from elsewhere*. The benefit they will get is lower gas prices, the same as the rest of us. Do you want our country to be controlled by nimbyism? The actual footprint of these drilling sites is small, and as long as Cuadrilla are forced to clean up after themselves, there is very little harm done.

    ( * many of these "protestors" were not actually environmentalists but professional left-wing agitators who go from one protest to another. Many were present at the Dale Farm evictions and the anti-capitalist protests outside St Pauls Cathedral)

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    Well I won't argue with any of that - I know when I'm outclassed! I will ask you this though - would/does the presence of significant reservoirs of oil (repeat oil) result in a seismic reading indicating a 'change in density'? if so, would the presence of gas give a similar indication? Additionally I'd like to ask you: if you were a resident of Balcombe would you be sanguine about it going ahead full pelt, the consequences inevitably being the devaluation of your home and possibly your livelihood? If so, would that not make you a nimby??

    ps: Incidentally the villagers might not be able to see the site but they'd certainly be able to hear it!!

    . . . and probably day and night 24/7 (as they say!)
    Last edited by Ollyof39; 08-26-2013 at 10:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyof39 View Post
    Well I won't argue with any of that - I know when I'm outclassed! I will ask you this though - would/does the presence of significant reservoirs of oil (repeat oil) result in a seismic reading indicating a 'change in density'? if so, would the presence of gas give a similar indication? Additionally I'd like to ask you: if you were a resident of Balcombe would you be sanguine about it going ahead full pelt, the consequences inevitably being the devaluation of your home and possibly your livelihood? If so, would that not make you a nimby??

    ps: Incidentally the villagers might not be able to see the site but they'd certainly be able to hear it!!

    . . . and probably day and night 24/7 (as they say!)
    Yes the saturation of oil or gas in a rock can alter its density, and indeed this is the basis of "4D" seismic surveying whereby seismic techniques are used to profile a reservoir over time to monitor changes as the oil/gas is extracted. However, in exploration, seismic surveying is generally regarded as not sensitive enough on its own to determine whether a full production rig (which costs tens of millions) should be sited at a particular location - unless things have dramatically changed in the 10 years since I've left the industry! You generally need to combine seismic data with well-logging information from a test rig (or rigs I should say), plus other geophysics too such as gravity surveying. I assume that at Balcombe, they had done seismic and were at the test drilling stage - this doesn't even imply that a production rig was necessarily going to happen.

    I don't know if there was any evidence at all that the drilling would devalue the house prices in Balcombe, although I'm sure this was a scare story used by the protestors to mobilise the villagers against the project. Even if this is the case (which I doubt), there is no difference between this and when, for example, it is decided in the national interest that a new motorway or railway or airport needs to be built. They have to go somewhere, and if we had always bowed down to the inevitable protests of those "nimbys" who were negatively affected, we would still be living in the Victorian era. As Mr Spock wisely says "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one". I'm afraid with the threat of China's dominance in the next century, the "many" in Britain really need the economic clout that fracking might provide us with. If the "few" in places like Balcombe have to suffer, then so be it I'm afraid.
    Last edited by Northumbrian; 08-31-2013 at 09:25 AM.

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