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Thread: Should the niqab . . .

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    Default Should the niqab . . .

    be legally banned?

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    Senior Member Mr Muckspreader's Avatar
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    Default This is the UK

    No, the Niqab should not be banned. We are the UK and we believe in freedom of expression.

    However, women who wear the Niqab should be aware that in our culture certain jobs that require personal interaction so that one person can see the body language expressed by another such as salespeople, nurses, doctors, solicitors, lawyers, judges for example, may be harder for them to get because they do cover up the most expressive part of their body.

    I agree that women giving evidence in court should be asked to remove their veil so that jurors, lawyers and the judge can see their faces when giving evidence. This is not a big ask for our society to make. If they do not like that, then they really out to think long and hard about the reasons for wearing it or the society that they live in. I say this because I have lived and worked abroad and in every case I have been asked (or forced) to accept and conform with the rules of that culture or society. Why should the UK be any different?

    Do as you would be done by as they say where I live.

    Mr Muck

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Muckspreader View Post
    No, the Niqab should not be banned. We are the UK and we believe in freedom of expression.
    And the quid pro quo should be respect for our way of life, and conduct in public places. Seeing that the wearing of them isn't a religious requirement - much as they keep blagging ad nauseam to the contrary - they should unquestionably be prohibited in all public places, not least because they are divisive; the banning of them in the scenarios you outline would be impossible to enforce owing to the multiplicity of complications and exceptions, and is, in itself, subjective anyway. After all, there have been court cases in other countries where their dress codes have been violated, and quite right too: like I suggested - if someone is a guest somewhere they should respect the rules and customs without question, and if they're not prepared to adhere to that perfectly simple act of deference then don't go there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyof39 View Post
    Seeing that the wearing of them isn't a religious requirement - much as they keep blagging ad nauseam to the contrary...
    I have no idea how various groups within the major religions arrive at their different beliefs so, where no harm is caused to others, I would never presume to tell them they are wrong. Frankly, if wearing a full-face veil is thought by the wearer to be a requirement of their religion then I accept their view. In the few cases where it conflicts with society's requirements — such as for identification, giving evidence, impeding work, etc — then both veil wearers and the rest of us should come to common sense accommodations. It need be no more irksome than is catering for vegetarians, disabled members of the public, the elderly, etc...

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    As I said, it has nothing whatsoever to do with religion - it is a 'statement' plain and simple, and because of that, it is socially divisive. And as I've also said - religion is the curse of mankind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyof39 View Post
    As I said, it has nothing whatsoever to do with religion - it is a 'statement' plain and simple...
    I admire your certainty – there are many beliefs I find bizarre. But there's no way I'd claim they have "nothing whatsoever to do with religion". And while they don't adversely affect me or most other people, I happy to let those who have their beliefs get on with their lives as they want...

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    I remember some years ago when my stepson was about 7 or 8 we were driving through a city and he spotted some women wearing niqabs and he referred to them as "the ghost people". Of course I corrected him, but then when I reflected on what he had said, I realised that in his childish innocence he had actually hit the nail on the head. They really are "ghost people" and that is exactly what is intended by the culture/religion that requires women to wear such garments. The niqab is designed to make its wearer become invisible and segregated from society. Without a face, you are no longer fully human - a sub-human, a slave, the property or chattel of your husband.

    So yes I believe the niqab should be made illegal. As a member of the native population of this country, I find the niqab deeply offensive to my values and beliefs. This was the first country in the world to abolish slavery and a country in which women fought bravely to win themselves equal rights to men. Why should we give up these values because of selfish people who have decided that they want to come and live in this country, whilst sticking two fingers up at our culture and way of life. Those who complain that a ban on the niqab would represent an infringement to peoples "right to expression" might consider that it has long been illegal to be naked in a public place, because of the offence that would cause other people. I don't see why banning the niqab would be any different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patman Post View Post
    I admire your certainty there are many beliefs I find bizarre. But there's no way I'd claim they have "nothing whatsoever to do with religion". And while they don't adversely affect me or most other people, I happy to let those who have their beliefs get on with their lives as they want...
    My certainty () that the wearing of the niqab has nothing do with with religion came straight from the 'horses mouth' - a self-declared muslim called Jasmine Alibhai Brown. I'm afraid that you're one of 'the useful idiots' Pat. No offence!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northumbrian View Post
    I remember some years ago when my stepson was about 7 or 8 we were driving through a city and he spotted some women wearing niqabs and he referred to them as "the ghost people". Of course I corrected him, but then when I reflected on what he had said, I realised that in his childish innocence he had actually hit the nail on the head. They really are "ghost people" and that is exactly what is intended by the culture/religion that requires women to wear such garments. The niqab is designed to make its wearer become invisible and segregated from society. Without a face, you are no longer fully human - a sub-human, a slave, the property or chattel of your husband.

    So yes I believe the niqab should be made illegal. As a member of the native population of this country, I find the niqab deeply offensive to my values and beliefs. This was the first country in the world to abolish slavery and a country in which women fought bravely to win themselves equal rights to men. Why should we give up these values because of selfish people who have decided that they want to come and live in this country, whilst sticking two fingers up at our culture and way of life. Those who complain that a ban on the niqab would represent an infringement to peoples "right to expression" might consider that it has long been illegal to be naked in a public place, because of the offence that would cause other people. I don't see why banning the niqab would be any different.
    'We' were a different country then to what we've sunk to now. The UK is laughed at and pitied in equal measure worldwide; we are a country of fools ruled by fools.

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    Senior Member Rook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patman Post View Post
    I have no idea how various groups within the major religions arrive at their different beliefs so, where no harm is caused to others, I would never presume to tell them they are wrong. Frankly, if wearing a full-face veil is thought by the wearer to be a requirement of their religion then I accept their view. In the few cases where it conflicts with society's requirements such as for identification, giving evidence, impeding work, etc then both veil wearers and the rest of us should come to common sense accommodations. It need be no more irksome than is catering for vegetarians, disabled members of the public, the elderly, etc...
    I agree with the principle, but I would argue that full face veils do harm people. Not in the physical sense of course, but it deliberately excludes the wearers from the rest of society, makes them fearful of men and places all sorts of strange notions in their heads - from the sense that they are simply not equal to men, to men being so full of lust that the sight of their uncovered bodies will turn them to rape, and that the 'blame' for rape is with the woman for not covering up!

    I find these things to be offensive, but its the first issue that is of gravest concern; exclusion from society.

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