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Thread: The idiotic war on drugs!

  1. #11
    Administrator Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyof39 View Post
    I don't know about that - nor care actually
    Well that's your prerogative if you don't want to care about the facts, but wouldn't expect anyone to treat your opinion with any credibility either.

    - but if it didn't work then the revised sanction still wasn't enough to deter them - is that a reason to surrender to the dealers? That's the trouble with this country - the authorities always take the path of least resistance, or to put it another way - what's easiest for them. It's bound to happen to any country which has become bureaucratised; as we all know, bureaucrats are not very intelligent and are always bone idle. The title of the jobsworths' rule book is 'If it's easier to do nothing then do nothing.'
    How is robbing drug dealers of an illegal trade giving into them? You are talking complete rubbish.
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  2. #12
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    Look Will, if this proposal goes ahead it's gonna cost the law-abiding taxpayers an arm and a leg to set up the infrastructure of buildings and staffing nationwide - I repeat, nationwide - to administer and enforce it!! Then what will happen? Why, the dealers will simply retain their client base by making their wares much cheaper, and it'll gradually return to the status quo. Ipso fact, all that eye-watering amounts of taxpayer dosh will have been wasted - as if enough taxpayer dosh doesn't get wasted already.

    I'm afraid that liberals like you - idealists who want this country to become some kind of Shangri la - always believe there's a perfect answer to everything, but you don't think your 'solution' through before sounding off. Whereas we pragmatists do!

  3. #13
    Administrator Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyof39 View Post
    Look Will, if this proposal goes ahead it's gonna cost the law-abiding taxpayers an arm and a leg to set up the infrastructure of buildings and staffing nationwide - I repeat, nationwide - to administer and enforce it!! Then what will happen? Why, the dealers will simply retain their client base by making their wares much cheaper, and it'll gradually return to the status quo. Ipso fact, all that eye-watering amounts of taxpayer dosh will have been wasted - as if enough taxpayer dosh doesn't get wasted already.
    Sorry, but this is utter bollocks, where is your proof of this? It certainly doesn't match with what has happened where this has already been done. It costs considerably more to enforce prohibition than it costs not to have it. This is a fact, but since you don't care about facts I'm probably wasting my breath on you. As you base your opinion on made up scenarios that don't reflect reality.

    I'm afraid that liberals like you - idealists who want this country to become some kind of Shangri la - always believe there's a perfect answer to everything, but you don't think your 'solution' through before sounding off. Whereas we pragmatists do!
    I have never claimed that, nor has anyone else - more meaningless bollocks. Show me what is so brilliant in spending these billions on enforcing a law which doesn't work, in favour of introducing a law which cuts crime, spending, AND drug use. You claim you're being pragmatic about it, yet you don't say how you've reached your conclusions. Most likely because you can't.

    You also fail to comprehend the amount of money we would save as opposed to how much we currently spend. Not only could we be earning billions in tax from legal drugs, we would be spending millions/billions less on enforcing a failed policy.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...h-8818064.html
    Last edited by Will; 09-30-2013 at 11:54 AM.
    Admin Will - Think for yourself, it hasn't been banned, yet.
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  4. #14
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    Too many pro and anti responses to these proposals are the usual knee-jerk reactions that add nothing to the debate.

    Most people have limited or no contact with drugs. The majority of commentators, who serve up ready-made opinion on the subject are in the same position though they often cite "experts" from various camps. And there's little guidance on what information is true and what's not. Which means most of us have to base our views on other uniformed, and often biased, opinion.

    Maybe pronouncements by establishment figures will get the facts about the supply and use of illegal recreational drugs out into the public domain.

    Personally, I'd like real information on how much of a problem drugs are eg, the number of users and addicts, how much drug use costs/harms society compared to alcohol and tobacco in terms of theft, violence, fatalities, etc.

    And to get some idea of scale, I'd also like to know how this compares to the "more-acceptable" costs, injuries and deaths on our roads.

    I am semi-persuaded by the alcohol model illegal and unsafe production is confined and almost nil; its distribution is highly controlled (which means sources for its abuse are more-easily traced) and I suspect there are many more alcohol users than drug users.

    Let's hope this time we're near getting a sensible adult debate with all the relevant data on the table...

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    Nope, that's not what it's saying at all. Perhaps you should try reading it?

    You seem wilfully ignorant of the fact that we are ALREADY paying for it through the NHS. The vast majority of serious health problems associated with harder drugs, come from the fact that IT IS ILLEGAL! Inconsistent doses that lead to overdosing, sharing needles which pass on disease, drugs cut with lethal toxins so the dealers can make more money. The Heroin legalisation program that has been running in Switzerland for decades has been so successful at saving lives and rehabilitating addicts that it has been made permanent.

    I was talking about the suggestion that class 'A' drugs should be supplied by the NHS. You're now suggesting we follow the Swiss in legalising heroin, so are also suggesting that we should be trailblazers in the world of drug liberalisation and supply that on the NHS as well? Paid for by good old [I]us [I]? So we pay for the supply of this crap, we will pay for the new government department and NHS medical, not to mention bureaucratic, departments, set-up costs, highly paid managers overseeing the giving away more of our dosh for dope. And treatment on the NHS will continue - you can't tell me that legalisation and regulated supply make for a perfect world - there would still be problems of overdosing, unforeseen bad reactions etc. And that's the next thing, the NHS would be sued constantly by these morons for the slightest faint suggestion of feeling giddy or something. It could be much worse than all the spurious claims for 'whip lash' in car accidents. It would be worth becoming a druggy just to get a 6-figure pay-out.

    So, perhaps you should tell me why you'd rather we had more people dying and more people remaining addicts, and more people committing the crime to fund their habit. Tell me why you think such idiocy is preferable.

    I think that for whatever drug is NOT legalised AND supplied free to the user there will be dealers. If you legalise and supply a 'mild' class 'A', users will want to progress on to a stronger class drug, so you do the same for that - it would just go on. No, although I can't say I care much about addicts who have chosen of their own free will to go down this self-destructive route, I don't want them to die. But, can you tell me, what is right about the total idiocy of me effectively throwing the towel in on the problem and paying them to get their kicks?

    As above, drug legalisation significantly reduces crime as addicts don't need to commit crimes to get their fix. Since legalisation reduces use, it seems ordinary people like yourself can continue to be ordinary.
    Yes, I accept that those crimes would be reduced, but there would be an awful lot more drugged-up zombies around, not knowing and/or not caring what they do to us ordinary folk and our property.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    I thought being a Tory was all about being selfish and fucking everyone else. The fact remains that almost everyone over the age of 18 is a regular drug user.
    Thought I'd include the first sentence, reveals you as a bit of a hot head. For an 'administrator' anyway.
    Second sentence : Trust you're not assuming your neighbourhood is typical of the country as a whole! You obviously know a lot about this subject, and you started this thread - could you supply us with the data to back up this surprising claim?
    Last edited by molesworth1; 10-01-2013 at 06:02 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Break your rant down into bite-sized questions and I'll answer them.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by molesworth1 View Post
    Yes, I accept that those crimes would be reduced, but there would be an awful lot more drugged-up zombies around, not knowing and/or not caring what they do to us ordinary folk and our property.
    Considering legalisation has reduced drug consuption, how did you reach this conclusion? Show me some evidence.

    Thought I'd include the first sentence, reveals you as a bit of a hot head. For an 'administrator' anyway.
    And?

    Second sentence : Trust you're not assuming your neighbourhood is typical of the country as a whole! You obviously know a lot about this subject, and you started this thread - could you supply us with the data to back up this surprising claim?
    No problem: 40 Million people drink alcohol in the UK on a regular basis.

    http://www.avon.nhs.uk/alcohol/the_facts.htm

    That represent near enough the ENTIRE adult population of the UK.

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census...dom/index.html

    That's just alcohol, we're not even talking about nicotine, pharmaceuticals, caffeine, etc.
    Admin Will - Think for yourself, it hasn't been banned, yet.
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    That's just alcohol, we're not even talking about nicotine, pharmaceuticals, caffeine, etc.
    Yes, but they're not mind-bending are they!!!
    Last edited by eatmywords; 10-01-2013 at 08:57 AM. Reason: fixed quote

  10. #20
    Administrator Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyof39 View Post
    Yes, but they're not mind-bending are they!!!
    Erm, yes they are. Do you know anything about this subject?
    Admin Will - Think for yourself, it hasn't been banned, yet.
    "When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
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