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Thread: Swedish Prison Paradigm

  1. #11
    Senior Member Sid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatmywords View Post
    I think America's problem is that the prison service has become an industry and it has become an extremely lucrative industry. We are not just talking about the prisons themselves, with the services they provide, but also the interim services, such as catering, surveillance technology, clothing, and other such private enterprises which all feed into the prison complex system. One starts to wonder whether government is the prime cause of perpetuating this system, as a similar trend as Sweden would necessitate a significant fall, not just in the prison numbers, but a decline in the economic system, putting at risk all these businesses. As a journalist said the US prison system is a , "corrupt human-warehousing operation that combines the worst qualities of government (its power to coerce) and private enterprise (greed)"



    America does not seem to be looking to rehabilitate offenders, particularly drug users, and they comprise the greatest proportion of inmates. Equally the greater proportion of human right violations stem from the abuses coming from the prison system, which would infer the US prison system is something out of the Middle Ages rather than a reformist system designed to promote a better person in a better society. The recidivism rate in 2007 comprised nearly 2 million former inmates, and in 1994 the rate of former inmates returning to prison was nearly 50% which does not really indicate the prison service works too well if we add that number to new criminals entering the system.

    It is one thing to say throw away the key, but if the social and economic conditions drive the majority of people into the prison system, then the US are clearly are focussed on prevention rather than cure.

    http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=17
    There isn't much that can be said about the above. All I can say is that locking people up and throwing away the key clearly doesn't work in helping reduce crime. In the real world that is and not in someone's head!

  2. #12
    Senior Member Sid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyof39 View Post
    Well you said 'This has worked in Portugal as the figures demonstrate', but don't give a source for it.
    Do you have a memory?

    http://www.talk-uk.com/showthread.ph...ighlight=drugs


    See posts #69 and #70. You dimissed the information due to cultural differences


    What, the 'lock 'em up and throw away the key' remark? What's childish about that - it's what should happen! You can't 'educate' addicts out of their several addictions I'm afraid; only deprivation can do that.
    If you look at Eat's post you see clearly this doesn't work. Unless you have evidence to the contrary?

    If you do can I have the figures from a reputable source?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Sid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyof39 View Post
    If you think there's a better way to reduce serious crime in America than that draconian penal code, I'm the sure yanks would be very interested to hear what it is.
    Maybe point out the results in Sweden, which is a direct contrast to your stance! Sheesh!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid View Post
    Do you have a memory?

    http://www.talk-uk.com/showthread.ph...ighlight=drugs


    See posts #69 and #70. You dimissed the information due to cultural differences



    If you look at Eat's post you see clearly this doesn't work. Unless you have evidence to the contrary?

    If you do can I have the figures from a reputable source?
    This from the article:
    Sweden's prison services will retain the option to reopen two of the closed prisons should the number of inmates rise.
    You and 'Eat' seem to be more confident that it'll work than the Swedes are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid View Post
    Maybe point out the results in Sweden, which is a direct contrast to your stance! Sheesh!!!
    If it's a fact that the more lenient a penal regime is, the more the crime rate/recidivism figures will decrease, then making it even more lenient - think 5-star hotels here! - will render crime a thing of the past? QED? Sorry, but human nature doesn't work like that; not in this country anyway!
    Last edited by Ollyof39; 11-24-2013 at 09:20 AM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Sid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyof39 View Post
    If it's a fact that the more lenient a penal regime is, the more the crime rate/recidivism figures will decrease, then making it even more lenient - think 5-star hotels here! - will render crime a thing of the past? QED? Sorry, but human nature doesn't work like that; not in this country anyway!
    But the USA has one of the most harsh penal and prison systems yet one of the highest rates of crime. That doesn't fit with your logic at all.

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    So what about demographics then; for example comparing the population of Sweden with that of the USA. The bigger the population, the more criminals/psychopaths there will be? That fits with my logic even if it doesn't fit with yours.

    Oh I nearly forgot Sid - add to that pearl of wisdom above 'Sheesh!!!'
    Last edited by Ollyof39; 11-25-2013 at 05:37 AM.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Sid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyof39 View Post
    So what about demographics then; for example comparing the population of Sweden with that of the USA. The bigger the population, the more criminals/psychopaths there will be? That fits with my logic even if it doesn't fit with yours.

    Oh I nearly forgot Sid - add to that pearl of wisdom above 'Sheesh!!!'
    Do you know what the word percentage means?
    If not I'll be happy to explain.

    Below is a link to information about the number of inmates per 100,000 of the population.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...rceration_rate

    This basically gives you the number of inmates as a percentage of the population.
    I'll give you one guess where the USA comes!

    Keep scrolling and scrolling and you'll eventually get to Sweden at around 180 on the list!

    Your pearls of wisdom are actually quite brilliant. But I'm sure the sarcasm of that will be lost on you.

  9. #19
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    I think there are too many extraneous variables to compare a large country such as the US with other Western countries. A more effective comparison would be between comparing different US states with each other.

  10. #20
    Super Moderator eatmywords's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyof39 View Post
    So what about demographics then; for example comparing the population of Sweden with that of the USA. The bigger the population, the more criminals/psychopaths there will be? That fits with my logic even if it doesn't fit with yours.

    Oh I nearly forgot Sid - add to that pearl of wisdom above 'Sheesh!!!'
    That's a completely illogical argument Olly. Just because you have a larger population doesn't necessarily mean you will have a larger crime rate.
    Faced with certain disaster, defiance is the only answer.

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