Blackgrass

I have been reading a fascinating book by Nickie Roberts, a UK ex-prostitute, called `Whores in History`, & thought you may be interested also in this para:

`The United nations figure that women do two thirds of the worlds work & recieve 10% of the worlds income & own 1% of the worlds assets; this spells out the truth about prostitution.
Women work at least twice as hard as men, get much less income; therefore we are the sellers to men who are the buyers.
This shows the impossibility of eradicating prostitution. Every attempt to do so by absolutists monarchies, moral vigilantes & police states have met with failure, there are simply too many positive factors motivating women to sell sex: compelling reasons for economic survival & personal independence above all, as the above testifies.
In light of this to debate the morality of prostitution is meaningless when the fundemantal issue of womens poverty is not addressed; & yet this is what has happened over the years.
Commentators & moralists of all persuations have simpkly by-passed economics & focued instead on womens supposed sexual immorality as an underlaying factor which disposes them to prostitution. But in a society which is dominated by the marketplace & which the vast majority of people have to sell their labour in order to survive, it is inevitable that some women-& men-will continue to provide sexual services.
legislation against the sex trade historically go hand in hand with intolerance of sexual freedom in general & womens sexual freedom in particular. Whores have always been prime targets of this repression. The whore is seen as dangerously free: her financial & sexual autonomy strikes at the very roots of patriarchy, threatening the interests of male moralists & legislators, some of whom are her best customers. And the whore if free in the sense she does not bind her sexuality to any one man; on the contrary, she openly challenges the notion of female monogamy. many women identify & recognise their own acive sexuality as `whorish` in their fantasies; but dare not identify with prostitutes publicly shows the extent to which this last, unexplored aspect of sexuality has yet to come out of the closet.`

Sid

Just one question; does anyone out there hope their daughter becomes a prostitute?

Please put me right where I'm wrong on this one but aren't most prostitutes drug addicts and do it for the money, not the so-called moral reasons the article above suggests.

There are some stupendously stupid comments in the article. Probably the best of the bunch is this one:
And the whore if free in the sense she does not bind her sexuality to any one man;
She couldn't make much money that way now could she? And that's all they're in it for, isn't it?

So, trying to portray a prostitute as some sort of knight in shining armour, a free spirit doing good for the cause of women in their quest for equality, is total crap.
I see them as dirty, desperate, drug-addled low-lifes who do the exact opposite to what the article tries to portray.

Blackgrass

Every so often in life...I come across such ignorance & niavity that my mind never ceasing to boggle....your one of these moments.
Your daft replies always makes me still worry about the women who are still in the industry...& I am now retired & write about human rights...what was that quote `two things reduce prejudce: education & laughter`!
but in cases like yours the laughter is thin on the ground.
Do you realsie to talk like that creates hatred & fear...which in turns can cause the injuries & deaths of many women?? Do you know that? But I expect what I have said has little if no effect on you...therefore I refuse to continue in this vain, if thats the road you are deciding to go down...go alone!

sybylyfyrysms

Blackgrass, please do not leave this place in disgust. you have an opportunity to educate men here.

Sid, is it ok for your precious daughter to be chained to a reception desk for eight unfucking hours every day of her life, while being subtly and meticulously coveted, metaphysically molested and raped? you will never inhabit a woman's body and so will never know just how insidious and routine this process is. i can barely get on a train without some guy trying to penetrate me with his sexual aura, and, in rush hours, taking advantage of the physical intimacy by rubbing his pelvis on me. -- luckily (whatever luck is) i am empowered enough to not have to suffer this too often. but this phenomenon is there on every street.

a friend of mine is a fellow artist, but makes her money as an international escort for very rich businessmen. she is looked after by her agent and lifelong female friend. she usually makes three trips a year, and has been to almost every place on earth and met some of the most interesting and influential people alive. the pay (not to mention the gifts she receives) is enough for her to live on very comfortably. -- she is beautiful and highly intelligent and not at all dirty. still she laughingly calls herself a 'pro'. --

ok, i'll tell you this. i have doubled up with her on one of these trips. i had the most glorious travelling experience of my life, was treated 'like a princess'. the sex was optional: i was under no pressure, and would not have done it had i not found the guy very sexy and undesperate. and i was payed for it much more than you would guess. and being paid for it felt THRILLING. -- however it is my choice to not make a living this way. simply because my path lies elsewhere. -- i expect i am now lowered in your eyes Sid. and in the eyes of most men here.

Blackgrass, thank you for your generous post. i think men would do themselves a service reading that book. i'm sure it tells of times when prostitution was respected as a High Art (and how it still is by informed people). and how it is closely related to Magic. and just how petrified men are of women's powers that they have had to club women into such contemptible submissiveness. yes, it is men that have made women low-lifes, in the shadow of their petty erections. haha.

and i don't even consider myself a feminist. (i'm a self-contained, happy-go-lucky kinda girl who loves men and women.) this is just a plain history lesson.

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Sid, i know you are not a bad man, but i wish you would open your heart a little. i feel that such venemous and polarised expression from regulars is driving away anything different and will prolong this forum as a place for uninformed bigots and it may one day eat itself alive.

__________________
first lady of all-new Talk Uk

Sid

Just explain why they are daft. To me they make perfect sense. Just because I disagree with you?
To say women who are prostitutes are on some sort of crusade to free women from the evils of men's persecution is, to me, by far the most ridiculous comment I've heard on the subject.
So educate me on why it's such a noble profession. And I didn't intend to get any laughter. I just feel so sorry for the poor often young girls who have to resort to what I see as a degrading and disgusting way to earn money.
How in hell can me commenting on a board cause injury or death to a prostitute? The fact they get into situations they put themselves in, with often complete strangers, just to make money may just have more to do with it. How can doing this free women from sexual suppresion? I'd have thought it had the opposite effect.
Just because I disagree with you you refuse to continue a debate with me? Did you expect everyone on here to agree with you? How naive.

Sid

So you consider a lawyer in the same light as a £20 a time whore? How ridiculous!
So you think that by women being prostitutes they are going to make the situation better? I'd have thought prostitutes contributed more to make women appear to be easy.

And these are as few and far between as successful drug dealers, a rare occurrence. And I'll bet she didn't start out by selling it on the street either, which is what the vast majority do.

Not at all, as long as you don't try and tell me you were doing it in the name of sexual freedom for women.

Tell me when this was then.
EH!! I thought you were saying it was a respected art form, now we've clubbed women into submissiveness. Make your mind up won't you.

A history lesson, I thought it was a one-woman crusade to justify making a living out of perverted men who like to be beaten before, during, or after sex.

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For God's sake, I only disagreed. What am I supposed to do, agree because it was posted by a woman?

Bruv

I would disagree with the whole thrust of the statement.
What has two thirds of the worlds work etc. necessarily have to do with prostitution? Unless you want to link them by some tenious thread.

I would disagree with Sid, most prostitutes are desperate women with no choice, while a lot of western prostitutes might be using drugs, worldwide I dont think that is the case.
Prostitution is not normally a career choice, but the only commodity the women has to trade, and the trade is many times only for goods or priveliges and not for monetary gain....hardly a noble trade.

I dont think you can catogorise all prostitutes, and lump them into any general grouping.There are some really evil girls plying their trade, while others trade and return to bathe their children and feed them sending them to school with full stomachs as a necessity nothing more or less than pure survival.
Civil engineering is a noble trade, cutting roads and railways, viaducts and aquaducts for the good of mankind......nothing to compare with the diddicoy who smears tarmac over your drive and runs away with your money.

__________________
I thought I knew more than this...before I started talking

Sid

Okay, maybe it was too much of a broadly sweeping statement of mine, drugs and the like. I was just trying to say that it's not the noble trade some would like us to believe.
Does she really think she's doing something to free women from sexual persecution, by beating men with a sick perversion?

So much for the noble ancient art of prostitution.

David Duke, PhD
Prostitution, or White slavery as it is aptly called, is another institution as old as civilization. Even in ancient times, the fair-skinned beauty of European women and little boys and girls brought a premium from the purveyors of perhaps the most brutal kind of slavery of all: the sexual defilement of one’s body. The subjection of countless innocents to the filth and pain of sexual degradation is a crime of enormous magnitude.

Just as they dominated the organized slave trade, Jews dominated prostitution. It originally came about as a natural adjunct to slavery, as it took no special commercial acumen to realize that a female or young boy slave could be rented out for sexual abuse. And fair European maidens could fetch great prices from the sultans of the darker nations.

Casper

Sid