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Old 02-06-2007, 12:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
Casper
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Bruv, whose fault is it that Africa is such a shithole?
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Old 02-06-2007, 01:59 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
Bruv, whose fault is it that Africa is such a shithole?
Are making a statement "Africa is a shithole" ?
You are obviously basing that assessment on news pictures from Darfur and Ethiopia and Soweto possibly ?

Do you want me to name names ? Point the finger ?
"Whose fault " tends to mean somebody or some group has total blame..........its not as simple as that.

And I think you know that....you little rascal
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Old 02-06-2007, 04:18 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Isnt the problem in these countries related to the fact that muslims are trying to take over, hence the current wars in darfur, ethiopa etc.
Not forgetting the fact of
course that most of africa is 100yrs behind the rest of the world.
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Old 02-06-2007, 04:43 PM   #24 (permalink)
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You do make me laugh bugsy.....are you serious ?
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Old 02-06-2007, 10:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Welcome to The HistoryChannel.co.uk :: Sudan

The historical context
Northern Sudan in ancient times was more commonly known as the kingdom of Nubia, which came under Egyptian rule after 2600 B.C. An Egyptian and Nubian civilization called Kush flourished until A.D. 350. Missionaries converted the region to Christianity in the 6th century, but an influx of Muslim Arabs, who had already conquered Egypt, eventually controlled the area and replaced Christianity with Islam. During the 1500s a people called the Funj conquered much of Sudan, and several other black African groups settled in the south, including the Dinka, Shilluk, Nuer, and Azande. Egyptians again conquered the Sudan in 1874, and after Britain occupied Egypt in 1882, it took over Sudan in 1898, ruling the country in conjunction with Egypt. It was known as the Anglo-Egyptian Sudan between 1898 and 1955.



Due to the growth of Sudan nationalism in the twentieth century Britain and Egypt granted the country its own government in 1953 and it was declared on January 1st 1956. Since the declaration, it has been ruled by a string of volatile parliamentary governments and military regimes. Major. General Gaafar Mohamed Nimeiri, instituted fundamentalist Islamic law in 1983 in Sudan and it is this that aggravated the schism between the North (Arab), the seat of the government, and the South (black African animists and Christians). This led to an relentless civil war between government forces, intensely influenced by the National Islamic Front (NIF), and the southern rebels, whose dominant faction is the Sudan People's Liberation Army (SPLA). It also has been implied that Sudan had been a safe haven for terrorists and this isolated the country the most from the international community. Unsurprisingly therefore the UN imposed sanctions against it in 1995.
Ever since Bashir's military coup in 1989, the de facto ruler of Sudan had been Hassan el-Turabi, a cleric and political leader who is a key figure in the pan-Arabic Islamic fundamentalist resurgence. In 1999, however, Bashir ousted Turabi and placed him under house arrest. (He was freed in Oct. 2003.) Since then Bashir has made overtures to the West, and in Sept. 2001, the UN lifted its five-year-old sanctions.
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Old 02-07-2007, 10:07 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
Are making a statement "Africa is a shithole" ?
You are obviously basing that assessment on news pictures from Darfur and Ethiopia and Soweto possibly ?

Do you want me to name names ? Point the finger ?
"Whose fault " tends to mean somebody or some group has total blame..........its not as simple as that.

And I think you know that....you little rascal
Sorry, bad statement that was. In general, some parts of the African continent are in terrible turmoil.

I just want to know what your explanation is for this.
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Old 02-07-2007, 10:29 AM   #27 (permalink)
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"Sorry, bad statement that was. In general, some parts of the African continent are in terrible turmoil."

You got it wrong Casper.its MOST PARTS of africa
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Old 02-07-2007, 05:27 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I will need time to put a coherent post together.....and it will be long.
I shall return.
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Old 02-08-2007, 01:18 AM   #29 (permalink)
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As requested.......my copied and pasted opinion (bowing to Casper) on why Africa appears to be still in the dark ages....or as so succinctly put "A shithole"

First let me put my opinion into perspective, I have visited Africa once, for two weeks holiday, living in regular houses, travelling on buses,sharing the food, going native for two weeks....not doing the tourist route
Prior to my visit I had married a Zimbabwean women 5 years earlier, and had become aware of certain cultural characteristics.

Other than that visit I have never left the UK.

It is possible if you have any imagination to consider the history of africa from an unbiased neutral stance....to consider the facts dispassionately.

No other continent has ever lost the vast numbers of its youth over such a long period of time.......40 million plus are the upper numbers....over a sustained period......A devastating loss by any standard, and one that must have argueably affected its advancement to some degree.

Following and over lapping that period of african history most of the continent was subjugated by an obviously different invader. Not like the Roman domination of Europe who assimilated into the population and who assimilated the population into the dominant class.....in africa there was a sharp divide....Whites ruled, blacks were subordinate, almost totally.

Whites dominated every aspect of the continent, every position of power, police ,army, law, all authoritive positions, Priests, teachers, Farming, Mining, and mainly financial........
Whites controlled every aspect of countries they ruled, even the lines drawn to define borders, disconnecting tribal regions, thrusting conflicting tribes together in one country.....in Zimbabwe the Ndebele and Shona.
The whole infrastructure of africa was controlled and maintained for the ruling elite who retained their dominance by any means available.....these ruling elite were originally mercenaries, soldiers of fortune, taking the riches abroad, enriching the colonial countries far away.
Later these same people became attached to the countries their forbears had settled in...... the infrastructure remained geared for european profit..........cash crops, minerals......most enterprise was to suit the european market place.....with enough uplift of the blacks to keep them happy.

Africa was booming.....enriching the invaders....the indigenous people....and the money men in Europe and America.

Then the blacks wanted more say.....they wanted to rule in their own destinies...............so the institutions of government,the organisational classes............after a struggle....upped and left.....theoretically.

So a continent without a modern ruling class, an alien system thrust upon them ....who had no people prepared to step into the positions vacated by the whites....were cast adrift to solve the problems.
The financial institutions remained in european hands.....the biggest businesses remained in european hands.....the control of the african economy remained by and large in the hands of far off western companies who needed to satisfy shareholders....not africa.....or the people of africa.

The West have nominally left the countries they colonised, but they still control the majority of big businesses, still manipulate governments into power by backing them financially, or topple others who look unfavourably at the west.
Mugabe the tyrant was backed by Westminster over a less agreeable alternative Joshua Nkomo
So at Independance most African countries were ill prepared to run countries that were European defined areas, combining tribes with ancient conflicts, and seperating tribal lands between different countries.........And with no history of government on the western style imposed as a condition of Independance.
Newly formed nations saddled with debt, struggling to gain stabilty, but with no finance other than tied Loans and Aid from their colonial masters.


If you take another look at Africa with history in mind......it takes on a different complexion.

My summary of why Africa still remains "A shithole" is that they are still not getting a fair crack of the whip Internationally.Europe and America have built unfair protectionist trade barriers, protecting their own producers, imposing quotas on imports.The International Monetary Fund and World Bank are in western hands....and bow to western business.Prices of exports from africa are kept artificially low.

That will do for now..........OK Casper ?
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Old 02-08-2007, 01:47 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Ethnic groups: black 52%, Arab 39%, Beja 6%, foreigners 2%, other 1%

Africa....Sudan....

Most definately Africa.....?
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